So the pedestrian connections between downtown and Dock Street are as follows [with my pedestrian friendly grade]:

-A Street (at ~22nd) [D – sidewalks available both sides, but it doesn’t really go anywhere]
-Glass Bridge (at ~19th) [A – bridge of glass, with elevator]
-15th Street [D – sidewalks one side w/ views, but shady between Pacific & overpass]
-Murray Morgan Bridge (at 11th) [D – steps]
-Dock Street & Schuster (at ~4th) [D – sidewalk one side adjacent to 50mph traffic w/only curb as separation]

Another connection between 11th & 4th would be appropriate to maintain the 1/4 mile spacing, but let’s pay more attention to the connections already in place.

If the hill climb is the culprit, why not use the existing structure of the Murray Morgan or require one of those new towers proposed north of the bridge to include a public express elevator & pedestrian connection to the bridge on the 10th Floor.

Another alternative is to use the remains of the Prarie Line Connector that runs through UWT, by Pacific Tollefson Plaza, through 15th & A, and down to the rail lines next to Dock St. (This was briefly mentioned by David Boe, Planning Commissioner and local architect, in the Project for Public Spaces workshop a few months ago.)

Let’s focus on what we have in place and create a grand plan to improve those. Get people out using the existing connections and gather feedback on how to improve them.

I’d like to see the 705 freeway torn out and replaced with regular streets. I know it’s crazy, but they did this in Portland (tore down the freeway between downtown and the river) and it improved the whole downtown.

I wouldn’t know how to handle the railroad, though …

Would it actually move the volume of people necessary to make it useful during events?

I like the idea of moving people to the waterfront.

However, I think the city needs to do alot of work down there before it becomes particularly attractive.

I would think the first step would be to extend the walkway by the water past the condos going in down a few miles so we have a useable waterfront. Right now its mainly a wasteland of parking lots.

Although I like the enthusiasm, the tram proposal seems heavy on the gee wiz factor and expense with an unclear advantage over having a simple, attactive, and inviting pedestrian walkway down to the water.

705 was built to help Tacoma deal with air pollution problems being caused by cars trying to get through the gridlock on Pacific Avenue to head from I-5 down near the Tacoma Dome to the north end of the city. I agree that it cuts off the downtown from the waterfront, but it will take some other solution for moving traffic from I-5 to the north end before I could imagine anyone wanting to tear down 705. In fact, the bluff between downtown and the waterfront is the real barrier, not 705.

”...a simple, attractive, and inviting pedestrian walkway down to the water.”
There may already be one- it just needs to be spruced up a bit- and signage all over northern downtown to point people to it: the pedestrian portion of the 11th Street Bridge. There is even an old wooden road that used to connect “A” Street under the bridge down to Dock Street – this could be fixed up for bicycles…

just a thought…

...and cost millions of dollars.

Millions? I think the decimal point needs to move over to the right a bit. I love the idea, though.

The cat’s away, so we can crazy-talk :-)
Sleepy thought #1 – With all this gee-whiz tram talk, maybe we need a…World’s Fair! Really, it’s been a LONG time since the last ones, and I can’t be the only one crazy enough to be thinking about it. Thought #2 – Can anyone draw some comparisons between our waterfront challenges and those faced and overcome by similar cities (besides Portland)? U.S. or othersise? I remember Baltimore’s waterfront seemed nicely rejuvenated. I love that illustration, BTW. The Kalakala is the bees knees.

In the 90’s there was some plan to construct a pedestrian bridge over the Thea Foss.

My office had a huge (like 10’ x 7’) matted, framed and signed lithograph of the design, complete with griffon/lion statues or something on each end. Apparently the city was working in collaboration with a Russian engineer/architect (correct me if I’m mistaken?)

My boss told me that when the project didn’t come to fruition, a limited number (6?) were given to the city and that another hangs somewhere near the city offices.

It reminded me of old Edward Gorey black and white illustrations and was super cool. Too bad he took it home when he retired. Sigh…

While I was hoping the rebuild of 705 as a tunnel could be in the 100s of millions, it looks like it’ll probably be a bit more.

Looking at the Alaskan Way Viaduct, it looks like a 1 mile tunnel conversion with seawall issues (not sure if we have the same seawall issues) costs about $3.5B.

The section of 705 from about 14th Street to about 8th Street (where the Stadium Way exit starts) is a shy 1/2 mile. Based on having no expertise in designing freeway systems, seawalls, or tunnels, I’d guess $2B should cover it. Based on construction cost increases, this will probably go up ~$100M/yr. (Gotta love random speculation with minimal basis in reality.)

I’ll pull my shovel out and get started this weekend.

(While I’m doing some digging, how about lobbying the powers that be for some minor improvements to the existing pedestrian accesses?)

There’s a couple of little known scary crossings underneath the freeway. Maybe they are counting them.

So does that mean we have State money sitting around for another crossing? Can anybody find out how much the Bridge of Glass received from the state?

The freeway and the train tracks combined are the necessary but noisy and unsightly transportation systems that have downtown in a chokehold. With increasing growth at the Port will come more and more trains using those tracks.

Tacoma could do better. I’m sure that many folks who would love to live at Thea’s Landing choose not to simply because of the presence of over 50 trains a day right across the street.

To find innovative solutions on how to “hide” train tracks, check out the Atlantic Yards project in downtown Brooklyn and Millenium Park in Chicago.

“Personally I think the solution is simplicity.. not complex ‘fancy’/show off solutions. A pedestrian bridge/stair/elevator solution similar to the bridge of glass would work just fine in my opinion, and I think it would have a sort of elegance about it. Why must we show off with one cool thing when we can do better by showing off a complete package of simple yet effective solutions that just get the job done? I would definitely prefer the latter.”

i couldn’t agree more. while i like the consideration of creative transit options myself, i think there have been some other ideas mentioned here that are more cost effective, and would move more people.

as for 705 and the train tracks, i would like to seem them go too, although i have no ideas how one could do that. maybe if the 512 expansion project is ever completed and connected to 509, 705 would no longer be needed.

I love reading the ideas in this thread. I remember the sketches Laura is referring to. They must have been in the TNT or something. My foggy memory somehow thought it was an ealier Bridge of Glass design, but now I remember it was a separate bridge. I think there was glass art (or art glass) proposed in the transom over some passages. So far, I think the tram seems too gimmicky, yet I think Chris #2’s funicular idea is great. I have to say however, I love trains. This is a railroad city, and we should celebrate that heritage. I think hiding it underground would be like shoving our past under the carpet. I hear the trains and boats at night, and it doesn’t bother me a bit. It’s like the people who move near Pacific Raceways (old SIR) then complain about the noise. (IMHO)

This has got to be one of the funnest threads to read ever.

Since when did Tacoma come to despise the one institution that transformed it from a clear cut hillside into the ‘City of Destiny’?; the railroad! Since 1873, when the Northern Pacific designated the city as its western terminus, Tacoma has been a railroad town.

Being the historic western headquarters of two transcontinental railroads (not just the Northern Pacific, but the Milwaukee Road as well), the heart and soul of Tacoma has been defined by its railroads. Without them our city most likely would not have such icons as Wright Park (donated to the city by Northern Pacific president Charles Wright), nor Stadium High School (originally in construction as an NP hotel prior to the panic of 1893). It would not have the often overlooked distinction of being a much larger city than Seattle prior to the Yukon Gold Rush. Nor other distinctions, such as the world’s largest exporter of wheat during its heyday. Even the Thea Foss waterfront itself would not exist as we now know it. Originally built on wooden pillars, the railroad extended the waterfront overtime from the base of the bluff (the current I-705 pathway around to Freighthouse Square) to its present location.

The current and future presence of the waterfront rail infrastructure should be embraced and utilized instead of reviled.
Personally I’ve wanted to set up residence in Thea’s Landing precisely for its close proximity to the rails. I’d love to watch 50+ trains a day from my living room window. Since the creation of Sound Transit, I’ve scratched my head at their ever evolving plans for commuter operations in and around Tacoma. Why try to create a whole new rail alignment when the infrastructure for such a system, much better than what they’re planning, already exists. With the rebuilding of one bridge across the waterway and the “Prarie Line” downtown and up South Tacoma Way, Union Station could once again become the grand destination of Tacoma it once was. This could greatly improve the flow of people into the revitalized warehouse district and downtown, serving as a genteel welcome mat for visitors; something currently lacking in this city. Of course, this would require the removal of I-705 and a Federal courthouse.

SUCH AS:
Ground View
Aerial View

If one believes that the waterfront rails should be rerouted and/or tunneled, consider this. These rails serve as the Major north/south, Seattle to Portland, rail corridor for both the BNSF and Union Pacific railroads. Its route north through old town and Ruston, referred to as the Point Defince Line, is the only viable route for rail traffic southward in and out of the city. The Union Pacific Railroad tried tunneling through the south end only to run into numerous complications. The remnants of a filled in tunnel bore still exist alongside South Tacoma Way. The Great Northern Railroad took one look at Tacoma’s bluffs and immediately decided on Seattle as its terminus. Therefore the rails have only two places to go; either a plus 3% grade up the south end (improbable for mainline terminus operations), or the current waterfront route.

Okay, i’ll stop preaching and cut to the chase. Tacoma is a railroad town, has always been a railroad town and its soul is defined by the railroads that call the city home. Due to Tacoma’s unique geography and history, plus an ever growing influx of container shipping on the Tideflats, the waterfront mainline is not going anywhere in the foreseeable future. Therefore, why not embrace it instead of thinking it will disappear. Why not remove the I-705 concrete fence to reconnect Tacoma with the railroad as well as the waterfront.

If for no other purpose than so I can get cool picures such as this:
1910 Half Moon Yard View