It would be tragic to see the plans to restore the Winthrop to a hotel be thwarted.

We are so close to having a restored attractive historic hotel in Tacoma. People are going to be attracted to a first class hotel in which they can explore and stay at, not an apartment complex.

The city council just needs to give one of the hotel developers a chance to restore the Winthrop and refrain from giving any more money to any other plan. It is hard to believe they even put this issue on the council agenda.

There is a great Tacoma Weekly article this week on Quigg’s plans for the Winthrop Hotel:

Quigg lives in Gig Harbor and has closely followed news about the Winthrop. He envisions bringing it back to its glory days as the city’s finest hotel. “I want to bring the structure back to its designed intent. I want to do what the original guys did, have this as a four-star hotel,” he commented.

“You have to look at it like a top-quality cruise liner, but without the seasickness,” he said.

Also, Quigg has apparently worked on restoring other Hotels:

Quigg is involved in a current effort to restore the old Morck Hotel in Aberdeen.

I think he also understands the role of hotels and cities:

“The character of a city is defined by its finest hotel,” he added.

We are at a major decision point for the future of Tacoma. Will Tacoma have an attractive thriving historic hotel like Spokane’s Davenport or not?

It seems to me that if we desire people to live, work and visit downtown, we need something to attract them there.

Here’s a chance for Tacoma to add authentic character to the city, honor our past and revitalize Tacoma.

That the AF Evans proposal is a noble endeavor is not in question, nor is their management capability. However, I question supporting this deal with public dollars when other alternatives exist, such as those offered by Quigg Bros. Inc.

The importance of the Winthrop as a grand hotel to Tacoma’s past, and the implications of lacking such a hotel for the future, cannot be understated. In my opinion, by withholding the Winthrop to be returned to its former glory as a grand hotel undermines all the effort of the past 15 years to revitalize downtown and the City.

Seattle has the Fairmont Olympic, Sorrento, Alexis, Monaco, Mayflower Park – all grand, historic, luxury hotels. Even lowly Spokane got it right with the recently restored Davenport Hotel. Meanwhile, Tacoma has… nothing.

Not one grand hotel.

We can build all the museums and host all the conventions in the world, but without the proper accommodations to welcome visitors, Tacoma’s Destiny will continue to be just over the horizon.

recently it seems tacoma’s biggest obstacle is itself. (or the city council)

While I’ll be contacting the council members I know, I’ve also got it on my calendar:

9/12 @ 5pm.
747 Market Street, 1st Flr

off topic but….

Kris, we tried to assist you financially yesterday but you were closed :(

Winthrop Back Off Market – A.F. Evans Still Here

Speaking of the upcoming Winthrop decision, Kevin Freitas put up a Winthop Poll on whether the Winthrop should be restored as a hotel or left as an apartment complex.

The Tacoma Daily Index has a pretty good article on it today.

but I have yet to see any suggestions on transitioning the current residents into alternate/improved housing

Quigg and his group is going to address the low income housing concerns and even has some low income housing specialists on his team. He has even had Winthrop residents at his meetings.

mark i couldnt have said it any better. evryone needs to send out emails to the city council, and tell your friends to do the same as well. this is huge, this is gigantic, it is just as big as UWT or the union station.

wish I could be in Tacoma on Tuesday to support all of you who are trying to save the Winthrop as a hotel Please keep up the full court press! Not coming until Thur. for the Stadium Centennial. Have lived away for 50 years but still have memories of the Winthrop-a Rotary meeting in the Crystal Ball Room with my late Father when the guest was Leo Carrillo-The Cisco Kid!I must have been all of 10 or 12. Then Dances at the top at what ever it was called in High School

I live downtown and moved here recently because of the promise of revitalization. I have to say that i’ve fallen in love with tacoma in so many ways. I realized the extent of my affection when when i heard that there were developers meeting to discuss restoring the winthrop. I was elated with excitement. I called all my friends and fellow regulars at Tullys so they could share in my excitement. FINALLY someone was going to do something about changing the blight of that corner. I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to be constantly approached for money, cigarettes, and whatever else everyday at that corner. To think that we would spent tax money to keep that building as is, when there are offers to fund a totaly and complete restoration without any tax-subsidizes?...it really blows my mind. How in the world can the council even be considering this proposal? I can tell you that i will be there on tuesday ready to voice my opinion in this matter. I will not have MY tax dollars going to a subsidize a company in SAN FRANCISCO that will be profiting on FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS (also ours) to keep a blight on our city alive and well. I will also be watching closely which council members vote yes on this proposal. I will volunteer and do whatever i can to make sure they get voted off the council at the next opportunity.
BROCK

Here’s the result of Kevin Freitas Winthrop Poll

Poll results:

Restoring the Winthrop Hotel: 43

Reinvesting in keeping the Winthrop as low-income housing: 2

Total Votes: 45

http://www.kevinfreitas.net/polls/poll.php?pid=2

Percent of voters favoring restoring the Winthrop Hotel 95.6 percent

Not meaning to muddy the waters of this issue…but, you are all aware that the city council recently voted to allocate a contribution of $500K to be combined with some much larger sums from local hospitals and do gooder goups for the purpose of housing Homeless folks from under the bridges and vacant lots in free apartments. I’m afraid the council has a strong bias toward supporting low priced housing. They are already invested in the concept.

I love the idea of Kevin’s poll about the Winthrop Hotel situation, but fear that the survey participants exclusively represent upper-middle class white folks, most of whom live in downtown condos, the Stadium District or North Tacoma. Is there a way to get input from a broad demographic and variety of zip codes? I’ll gladly stand corrected if I’m wrong.

Usually I would agree that the opinions of different zip code are in fact necessary. However, in this case, I’m not concerned with what someone who hasn’t been to downtown in 15 years and is otherwise indifferent about the future of the Winthrop and her surrounding blocks. The outcome of the Winthrop will affect those of us who work and live in the area to a much greater extent. And will continue to do so for the coming decades. I implore all of you who are writing on this board to actually come to the meeting(Tuesday Evening) so that our voices can be heard. Let’s break, once and for all, the “old Tacoma” cycle of two steps forward one step back.

Two things:

1)The plan to move the homeless camps, if properly executed, could be fantastic. Those sites breed crime, disease and incredible trash-scapes. It would work as long as they didn’t put them all in one building. Sound familiar? In my work, I sometimes have to go into those camps, it is hideous! And anyone unlucky enough to live near one of these camps can tell you many stories.

2)The question of who is voting to change the Winthrop. I used to live downtown, now I live in the “central district”. I enjoy the few downtown shops and restaurants that exist and I consider them brave pioneers. I am looking forward to visiting the new business that are opening soon. I also go into the Winthrop on occasion for my job. I would call it a slum. And cleaning it up would be an important first step to reclaiming that area and making Tacoma the most it could be. Then we would see more people from all over Tacoma spending time (and money) downtown.

Howdy there Exit133’ers,

I must say I’ve found this thread very interesting. Thanks for all the great input and the call to action!

In my opinion, restoring the Winthrop back to it’s original Grand Hotel status is a regional issue and a wonderful idea. In fact, from a historical preservation perspective, I think it should be considered a mandate.

Downtown Tacoma is by default the heart of the South Sound. And whether or not that designation is deserved, it carries with it a civic responsibility to do what is best for the both the City and the Region as a whole.

What’s best for the City is to keep up the revitalization momentum until it becomes a red-hot, self-sustaining, self-financing movement. (Right now it’s only the Tax Abatement Incentives that are driving the influx of new construction downtown.)

I think Tacoma needs to get back to it’s roots and re-establish it’s true identify as “The Jewel of the South Sound”. The Tacoma City Council has the keys in their pocket to make that happen by financing projects that draw visitors, and the Winthrop Hotel plan is just such a project.

If the council decides to play their hand right by turning the building into an elegant Four-Star tourist attraction, it will undoubtedly spur further investment by private firms wishing to partake in the public and financial success of the city. And if that happens, the entire South Sound region will benefit in immeasurable ways.

BTW, in an effort to promote this important cause, I went ahead and posted my take on the Winthrop story (with a link to this thread) on both my blog and The News Tribune’s Open House Real Estate Blog (I’m a temp “Guest Blogger” there). Here’s the link to the TNT post in case any of you want to jump in and give the story some juice:

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/realestate

my thoughts about the city council is not good because i am a resident of the winthrup apartments everysince 1993 and do not like being called a drug dealer and kicked around all my life by somebody like the tacoma city government the last time this issue concerning tacoma city government it caused me a nervouse breakdown yes i beleive in progrogress but not over my health being involved Eric

it seems to me that all we have left is voter retaliation. we all have to show up at that meeting and make perfectly obvious that if the city council decides to waste the winthrop, then they will pay for their imcompetence at election time.

Remember Remember the 12th of September! ;)

It’s hard to handicap this one but if you’re going to take the voter retaliation route, FYI: Julie Anderson and Tom Stenger are up for re-election in 2007.

I agree that the Winthrop needs to be cleaned up, and would love to see it restored as a hotel. One thing occurs to me, however: while I don’t have numbers, I would hypothesize that many low-income residents rely on public transit to get to work and to get around the city. For somebody that needs the bus to get to work, the Winthrop’s location is almost unmatched. If we spread low-income housing around Tacoma, we risk putting people in places where they can no longer get to and from work conveniently. Let’s make sure, as we move forward, that we are not making it impossible for people to get around town.

Here’s an idea: a restored Winthrop Hotel, streetcar service all around Tacoma, buses that run every 15 minutes, and dispersed low-income housing that allows people to live their lives reasonably without cars. Heck, while I’m at it, how about a living wage for all and affordable health care? I know, I know, I’m getting off topic and ahead of myself…

front page story on the winthrop debate in todays tnt. how much you wanna bet that this increased exposure is a direct result of the tacoma blogosphere. i think a lot of people in the local media and government are reading our words.

amen brother

This would be a nice bookend to a restored hotel:
Former adult theater gets a new perspective (Tacoma Weekly link)

Just got back from the meeting tonight. It went very well.

I don’t know the result yet.

However, there was a definite consensus that seemed to be emerging to both restore the Winthrop Hotel and to provide adequate alternative housing.

One of the notable moments was when one of the architects on the restoration team handed the council a book of historical photographs of the interior of the Winthrop. The council was pretty amazed. Quite a contrast to the condition of the Winthrop today.

Also, there did seem to be a feeling of getting past alot of the polarization.

One after another, Tacoma’s leading architects, preservationists and average citizens gave testimony in support of restoring the Winthrop and how it would be done.

A number of the low income housing advocates who had gotten to know Quigg now appeared to be either outright supportive of his plan or willing to work with him and realized the value of Tacoma having one of its central historical buildings restored.

One key speaker gave some good perspective by talking about how many cities around the country have gone through the same issues as Tacoma.

From coast to coast, historical hotels that were being used once for low income housing at one time were restored and the current residents were given alternative housing. Somehow, here in Tacoma the process has been a bit more bumpy.

Whether it is Quigg or not, Tacoma can move forward as a community by both making sure the Winthrop Hotel is restored and that new housing is found for low income residents. We should not consider settling for less.

I hope the parties and the council can now really focus on making this happen.

The vote on the resolution has been put off until next week.

That is great news. Hopefully, Quigg and his team will be able to pull this off.

However, the Winthrop Hotel needs to be restored regardless. If AF Evans wants to handle the low income housing portion, they can.

The Tacoma City Coucil should not support any plan that does not include the restoration of the Winthrop Hotel whether it is Quigg or not.

As the Tacoma News Tribune editorial board pointed out, the AF plans for the Winthrop as a large low income housing unit should be rejected regardless of whether Quigg is around or not:

The city should not throw good money after bad. Many communities have torn down their high-rise ghettoes, conceding it is bad public policy to segregate the poor into concentrated housing projects.

Not only does Evans’ proposal not do enough to improve the living conditions of the building’s residents, it also would be a poor use of what was once Tacoma’s grandest hotel. A restored Winthrop would bring new life to the beleaguered theater district that the city has invested heavily in redeveloping

We can only hope Quig & Co is able to find the funds to purchase the Winthrop. The more I hear about AF Evans the less I like. The first articles in the TNT made this company appear to be responsible and an improvement over the current owners. However, AF Evans appears to be more slumlord than savior. After reading the PI story regarding the Lake Washington Apartments, I asked my wife, a Seattle police officer who has patrolled Rainier Beach in the past (the area where the complex is located) what she knew about it. Before I could finish saying “Lake Washington Apartments” she blurted out “It’s the worst!” She told me she has been on numerous calls there for shootings, stabbings, drug activity, you name it. She claims it’s the probably worst apartment complex in Seattle. When I told her that the same management company was attempting to purchase the Winthrop she was dumbfounded. She couldn’t believe the city is considering backing this company with our tax dollars. Even if one thinks warehousing the poor in high rises is a good idea (Tom Stenger come to mind), this is obviously the wrong company for the project. AF Evans does not deserve a dime of our taxes.

Sitting as the city’s Redevelopment Agency, councilmembers debated whether to add another 22 years to the city’s lease on the Ocean View Gardens low income housing project, from its scheduled end in 2037 on to 2059.

Ocean View houses are currently rented to residents who are earn 50 to 60 percent of Area Median Income—roughly between $40,000 and $48,000 a year for a family of four. AF Evans Company of Oakland currently leases the site for the 62-unit complex to the City of Berkeley.

AF Evans officials said they needed the extension to get a $4.3 million loan from the California Housing Finance Agency (CalHFA) and to prevent the Ocean View houses from reverting to market rate housing as early as 2012.

When the council agreed to the extension, several Ocean View tenants charged that the city and AF Evans representatives had been unresponsive to complaints about alleged substandard conditions in some Ocean View units. The council then amended the lease, imposing city staff inspections of the dwellings, ordering a staff survey of tenants looking into management services at Ocean View, and making AF Evans meet with tenants on a regular basis to address issues of concern.

Both the extension and the amendments passed unanimously.

Sounds a bit familiar :

SAN MATEO Owners of the historic Ben Franklin Hotel want to remodel it into the city’s newest condominiums, but they have to hear what the public thinks before going any further.

Early plans call for converting the 99 hotel rooms into approximately 40 one- and two-bedroom condos, reconfiguring the existing penthouse and refurbishing the lobby and adjacent retail space.

Allison Borden, the city’s associate planner, said both the city and A.F. Evans want to preserve the building’s turn-of-the-century architecture.

The city has been eager to get a revenue generator in the building, a goal that has been a key part of the city’s downtown retail strategy.

The Ben Franklin remains one of the tallest buildings downtown, at nine stories. It played host to formal dinner dances in the post- World War II years.

Full Articel here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20050801/ai_n15823429

The million dollars that they want from the city is only a small part of it.

I believe they are asking for over $10,000,000 from the state of Washington.

Technical question since I had to leave the meeting prior to the resolution coming up…

Who proposed, seconded & voted for the motion to table the resolution? (Hopefully it was unanimous, but I wanted to check.)

Thanks.

Thanks again to everyone for contributing to this outcome.

Last night was great. I think the council was overwhelmed by people from all walks of life who wanted the Winthrop Hotel restored.

However, there are alot of twists and turns in the road and we want to make sure we get the best result in the end.

Right now, the next week or two seems uncertain and there are many possible outcomes.

Fascinating. Does anyone happen to know when this Council meeting is scheduled to be broadcast? I don’t have TV (much less cable), but while unable to attend the meeting, I would be interested in viewing it.

Couple of thoughts.

First: I agree with folks who think a grand hotel would be a great use and the best use for this building. Second: But what do people know about Tim Quigg or his proposal? People seem awfully ready to grant credibility to this person without any track record. I think it is a bit sad that people assume that Quigg et al is a viable proposal because they don’t like the AF Evans proposal, and it is what they want to hear. Third: I see a ton of naivete here—for instance, the person who notes that over $10 million in public funds are earmarked for AF Evans. These are called DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES, and most large projects use them (especially historic projects, which I remind everyone, any project involving the Winthrop will be). These incentives place requirements on a project that must be met (AKA meeting the public interest). Putting together financing for a project like this is extraordinarily complicated. Not for amateurs. Fourth: Let’s be clear and not confuse the historic architectural issues with the neighborhood’s concern for crime, etc, and the city’s desire to see a fancy hotel. Fifth: Since we all agree this is such an important building, I suggest we apply the same skepticism to all people who float proposals for hotels in the Winthrop or whatever. Recall that folks got all excited over Hollander Investment’s interest in the Winthrop (Tacoma Weekly, 7/20). Recall also that Hollander built our dryvit wonder, the Marriott Courtyard (and demolished a block of buildings to do it).

My personal concern is that low income housing that uses federal tax credits locks the building into low income housing for 40 years, and while a hotel might not be viable right now (believe me this is an expensive building to rehab) it very well could be impossible to get a reservation five or ten years from now. So we would regret that.

Nonetheless, I think it is a shame the silliness that has ensued with a qualified developer, who by the way manages a LOT of housing, who has committed $20 and then $30 million to a project, who has a very qualified architectural firm on board, only to get railroaded after 2 years of due diligence. Not a great place to do business, Tacoma.

“It is our job as citizens of this city to protect our valuable landmarks and not be railroaded into accepting the fate of those who have the most money and not the best interest of the area.”

I agree. And I also think that any time during the past number of years these issues could have been raised. Note that the building itself has been for sale for what seems like eons. This is the first viable proposal in something like 3 years.

Regarding who has the most money, this is partly due to the asking price for the property (high), which is a chronic problem with downtown generally. Also, you kind of DO want the organization with the most money to take on a project like this. There are too many half-assed projects in this town to count on both hands.

Regarding protecting landmarks, the current proposal does so. The building is not endangered—any future plans for the building will probably be a dramatic improvement.

One other thought, and this goes back to your assertion that the company may not be a very good manager of the property. This is a very good point—but I believe that the poor management and upkeep of the building, and not the affordable housing itself, is the cause of many of the problems. Lastly, how much do you know about AF Evans properties? I heard of four examples. Is it representative?

Just fixing up the retail spaces and lobbies will do tons to improve the area. I am afraid that the result of these community discussions will be that the City denies funding, halts a viable project, and is left with literally nothing to show for it.

I am sure that someday a developer will come along with the horsepower and the vision to pull a nice hotel project together. When is the question. Right now, there are many qualified developers in Tacoma, Portland and Seattle who won’t touch this one. These are folks who actually do care very much about Tacoma and historic buildings, and have vested interests in the community.

The discussion on this topic has been all over the map. I am impressed by the tentative agreement between AF Evans and the Quigg group—we can all wait and see whether they can put something together that works. My instinct says it won’t happen—it will be another example of big talk, no action in this town. I hope I’m wrong. I am with everyone else who is glad to see at least an alternative given a chance.

Lastly, and I meant to say this in my last post, is the housing issue. Where will the residents be relocated? Downtown? Hilltop? The South End? It is true that this is an incomplete discussion without these considerations, as several folks pointed out. Since everyone is saying what an evil company AF Evans is, are we also saying that we don’t care if they manage subsidized housing somewhere else in our city, just as long as it isn’t in the Winthrop (or maybe more accurately, so long as it isn’t located near my business)?

It is amazing to me that people are so willing to talk flippantly about breaking up an existing community, the people in the Winthrop, because of the undesireable effects of “concentration” of low income housing. This is a very public discussion of actually tearing apart a real, long term, group of people who live together.

I know that I for one would be really pissed to hear well intentioned people talking about where they think I should live based on my income and what they think my behavior is. But I don’t have to worry about it because I can afford to do what I want.

“Is this the best use for this building, and are there workable alternatives?”

Agreed totally. Are there workable alternatives? Hopefully we’ll know before we get too far down either path resulting in an unfortunate, ironic outcome. That’s my point.

I have appreciated the thoughtful comments presented on this thread.

I really wish that the Mayor’s campaign to renovate the Winthrop had been approached more responsibly.

For me the Mayor has failed to answer a vital question: how were residents going to find new homes? If the residents were going to be placed in existing housing, that would mean that the one to two years other low-income individuals have been waiting for housing would increase. Besides, that number of units of housing isn’t available all at the same time.

Because most of the residents are poor they do not have cars. They are tied to public transportation. They have a community and are close to services. Some I am sure would be fine moving elsewhere. But what about the rest?

The downtown is their community, too.

The other danger is that valuable HUD housing moneys are tied to the owner of the Winthrop. These vouchers are no longer given out by the Federal government. Now Quigg has said he would take that HUD contract. But if the Quigg/Evans deal doesn’t go through it would be doubtful that any other hotel developer would take that on unless he/she also was interested in creating low-income housing.

The other worry for me—what if Qugg/Evans doesn’t go through? Once developers go in the Winthrop, they are usually overwhelmed and walk out. It truly is a money pit for redevelopment. There are no guarantees there will be a developer in the wings. Does the Winthrop continue its decline then until condemned? Does the quality of life of its residents also decline. Do we have another Elk’s Club on our hands?

The nice thing about Wednesday’s meeting to get a wider perspective from other cities which have restored historical hotels throughout the United States.

If the two intertwinded goals of restoring the Winthrop Hotel and providing replacement housing for residents are kept in the forefront, everyone comes out ahead.

I’ll say it now, if the Winthrop is developed back into a low income housing project, the city will have difficulty advancing from here. It will be like the plague…...low income, drugs, crime will continue….the redevelopment will stay down on the foss, and up by stadium…...there will be a 3 square block area spliting the city of continued crime, shootings and drugs…..the core will die….and shame on the city council for allowing it to happen with our tax dollars….

I think that it is funny that in your own Guidelines is says “No personal attacks,” but that is all you are doing. I have read through all of these comments and some I will give credit to but many of them, I honestly believe some need to learn more about the facts. First to say that the owners of the company are “rolling in the dough” is ignorant. If you did your research you would see that the majority of the money made is put back into the company to help “improve” the lives of people that are less fortunate than me or you.

Secondly, yeah sure maybe it isn’t a good idea to have many poorer families in the same building, but I bet you don’t want any of them living with or near you.

Who is public transportation for if it is not lower class? Yeah sure it would be nice if no person needed to own a car but that isn’t the case. You and I can afford to have a car, we have the option. Many people don’t. And if it were a four star hotel, do you think that most of those people use buses? The answer is no. Very few people that stay in a four star hotel ride the bus.

Understand what this company does. If they were “slumlords” then why do these cities ask for their help? Why do investors invest in this company knowing that they are getting less return on their dollar? Because they know it is going to a good cause.

Yeah it is “annoying” to see people asking for money (since they have none) or ask for a cigarette (since they can’t afford them), but they are people. People are talking as if seeing one of them is going to kill you.

I just hope that people realize that even though the government isn’t perfect, we all know they are far from it, but in this case they have good intentions.