I’m certainly all for this, living about 200 feet away from the proposed store. But I have to wonder whether the numbers pencil for a new store so close to Stadium. Is the neighborhood really dense enough to get people there?

“...maybe where that classic car showroom is?...
Did the bird say right at that intersection? I don’t think Walter Sharp’s USA of Yesterday is going anywhere. (At least I hope not.) And I’m assuming not the ground floor of the Walker. But you know, that building on the SE corner has gotten some initial sprucing up lately, what with the exterior recently sprayed, and work on the rear landing and such… I’d guess there. By Colonel Mustard. With the lead pipe.

still does nothing for downtown but it sure gives that area another store in addition to Thriftway

Is that the same bird I heard talking about Stadium Thriftway moving in a year or two?

And I’m assuming not the ground floor of the Walker. But you know, that building on the SE corner has gotten some initial sprucing up lately, what with the exterior recently sprayed, and work on the rear landing and such…

That would be a great location.

Most of the new construction seems to have been taking place on Broadway and St. Helens downtown. Apparently, the developers are seeing the area as a sure thing as it benefits from the stability of Stadium. The rumored location would certainly be in the middle of it all.

I dont see that “building that has been spruced up” as a potential site for a grogery store. I just dont see it.

“I dont see that ‘building that has been spruced up’ as a potential site for a grogery store. I just dont see it.”
Yeah, never mind. After paying closer attention last night, I agree, ca. Looks like offices from the back side, and there’s some space up-front available in the spring, and room upstairs. C’mon, we need more clues! (Bavarian-theme like a block down, or is that a red herring?) I guess I’m in the minority, b/c I’m O.K. with Thriftway, or the 38th street Albertsons and Safeway, or the Target Business District Top Foods. I have to budget and wouldn’t frequent anywhere pricey. But as mentioned before, I’d love a Trader Joe’s on this end of town.

1) Gee, wouldn’t a streetcar make it easy for downtown residents to get to the existing grocery stores?

2) I think with the right charter, even a small grocery store could serve downtown well. A couple of cases in point. (a) Stadium Thriftway is much smaller than the Target Biz District Top Foods, yet actually seems to have a much wider selection of stuff. (b) We were in Spokane a couple of weeks ago visiting family, and paid a visit to a small gas station market called Rocket Market…while it was only the size of your average AM/PM, it had a huge selection of wines, gourmet foods, produce, a coffee stand, etc.—I’d absolutely love to have something like that in my neighborhood. Based on those 2 items, I think that some creative thinking could meet the needs of downtown residents without having to open a full-size grocery store…

Downtown, we get in our cars and drive to the store….defeating the purpose of living in an urban environment…..

So, for the people that live downtown – where do you do your grocery shopping now?

I do most of my shopping at the Proctor groceries as I work nearby. I also sometimes p/u groceries at Top Foods or S. 11th Safeway.

Downtown, we get in our cars and drive to the store….defeating the purpose of living in an urban environment…

Lack of places I frequent within walking/Linking distance is part of the reason I’ll be leaving downtown. If I’m going to drive everywhere, it does defeat the purpose.

(Interestingly, a friend who obtained a job in North Tacoma and began renting at Thea’s Landing was directed to S. 38th for groceries by Thea’s staff.)

Christine said:

I’ve heard rumor that the 6th Ave Market may be going bye-bye. Anyone else hear that?

Yikes, I hope not… I hadn’t heard anything in the short term, certainly. I did have a conversation with John, the owner, a while back and he mentioned something about retiring eventually, and his kids having no interest in taking the store over. But it sounded like we were talking years…

Noooo! The 6th avenue market can’t go away. That’s the best thing about this neighborhood.

I live north of downtown, but I shop at the 6th ave market, Marketplace on Pearl, or Fred Meyer on 19th and Tyler.

I live on 7th and St Helens and walk to Thriftway. It takes all of 10 minutes and burns off all the naughty pastries I buy. Is this such a horrible way for urban dwellers to get by? :)

ok, so from downtown that would be a 20 minute walk one-way times 2…

This also depends on your definition of downtown. I can’t imagine a grocery store landing in the central business district. There simply isn’t a large enough residential potential. St. Helens area I could see. Up near Marcato (once the other phases are moving and other projects get started) could have potential. South downtown – maybe some day. These areas are all technically “downtown” but not central.

But… we’ve been told that we’ll be very surprised when the announcement goes out.

So, when is the announcement going out and will we be surprised in a good way, bad way, or indifferent way?

God this snow is great! I wish it were deeper though. It’s still too shallow for my snowboard…

Im with the man from hilltop. Since I grew up on the Hill, it has supplied alot of people with food and other essentials. Besides Thriftway, this is The downtown store. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I just heard the same info as in the teaser, and as in dlbotm’s post #24. In construction terms, summer’s coming pretty quick, though.

I disagree with hilltop guy. That Safeway is a dumping ground for the rest of the local Safeways. If its near the pull date, ship it to 11th! Now that new Save A Lot down the street is a much needed addition. It’s pretty nice and the prices are decent.

Save a lot is only marginaly better than and empty right aid. I’ve heard of baging your own groceries (I usualy help out anyway) but at save a lot have to bring your own bags! I will keep shoping my safeway until they build another in its place.

I’m wondering the same thing, Eric. Because my source said the USAoY building should be around for a good 4-5 years. The parking lot referred to is just north of USAoY – where the ramp to get to the top of the building comes down. Just across the alley from the north end of Bella in Broadway. There are some storage garages and canopy along St. Helens that would be taken out, and storefront along there sounds really great. Google Earth shows it pretty clearly, although early in Bella’s construction. I realize USAoY wouldn’t easily lend itself to other adaptive uses, but I really dig the twin turntables and the terrazzo floor. Plus I need my weekly car-fix.

The whole site is 68,794 sqft (including the land under the USA of Yesterday building).
They are planning a 526,000 sqft building. On their site it states 6 floors of residential and commercial.
68,794 lot area x 6 stories = 412,764 sqft building. My guess is that the whole site will be used with 6+ stories of res and commercial and 1-2 stories for parking.

I would much rather see them max out the site in phases. Use half the site now and build 90ft and see how that works rather than building on the whole site at once and only going 70ft.

Yet another iconic piece of architecture threatened with demolition?! If the rumors prove true and run their course it seems that USA of Yesterday, the former Mueller-Harkins BUICK dealership is lost. It’s thrilling to see so much interest and enthusiasm dedicated to building new housing and amenities, but how can this be a good thing for Tacoma?!

We’ve suffered an number of losses this past year. The Temple Chuch a block up the street, an art deco service station on 6th & J Street, and the First United Methodist Church which came down this past week. These all were important buildings to Tacoma’s past.

The story that the Mueller-Harkins Buick dealership tells is unique, and it is also one that Tacoma should seek to preserve as it moves forward with plans like the Lemay. This showroom speaks much to America’s love-affair with the automobile. The style and the experience of buying a car; the post-war enthusiasm for life and the American dream.

An addaptive reuse of the building could give heart and direction to future development in the St. Hellen’s neighborhood. Imagine a new home for the Grand, our art house theater with a grand marque, the showroom now a lobby, and the back spaces converted to start-of the art theater spaces. There might too be spaces on St. Helens to accodate retail, a small grocery, and perhaps on floors below a bowling alley like Garage Bowl in Seattle and parking for patrons. If not these, let’s brainstorm other possibilities. Residents and developers should view this as an opportunity for us all.

Speak out and let the developer know that you too think they are in error. Talk to your friends, call the city, write the papers, and get people talking and engaged. We need to band together early if we have a chance.

The Tacoma Public Library has many historic photos of this building, including the original architectural model. Search for Mueller-Harkins Motor Co. at http://search.tacomapubliclibrary.org/images/

Sorry Brett, I think you may be alone on this one. We’re talking about replacing an old, concrete, one story building, with one of the largest mixed use buildings in Tacoma (almost 1.5 times the size of Thea’s Landing).

We can’t save every old building out there. Otherwise, there will be no more construction.

...Sorry Brett, I think you may be alone on this one..
Nah, for what it’s worth, I’m there, too. I don’t think there are other dealerships that can compare, what with twin turntables, and spiral staircase leading to the rooms below, etc. etc. I generally lean toweard saving everything too, and too much so. I’d really love to see the building saved and re-used. It reminds me of the locally-produced piece on KUOW that was repeated last night about the time-warp Issaquah Trible-X Root Beer drive-in. But that’s such an anomaly. I sadly think I just have to be satisfied we got to enjoy the bulding as long we did.

I’ll bite on this one. Responding to a couple of comments.

“There is a list of the downtown buildings which were deemed to be “contributing” historically and I don’t recall this one being on the list.”

The Mueller Harkins Building is an example of midcentury streamline moderne. This was a popular style for car dealerships at the time, and this is a great example. Notable are the vertical “fin” element and the large, circular display windows where you could rotate a new car.

Unfortunately, appreciation for midcentury architecture has not quite matured, even if these are very historic buildings by standard measures. The reason why many aren’t on any register is that they are only recently eligible, or because in the 1980s when most Western cities began surveying properties, 1949 was not that long ago. But, in fact, this is a half century ago.

While it may be “just another car dealership,” one should note that we have examples of dealerships from the 1910s through midcentury, before most moved out of the downtown core. This is Tacoma’s Autorow, and the Mueller Harkins Building is an element of this long history.
____
“The building is basically just a massive cement parking garage with a long decayed awning built in 1949.”
_____

By dismissing the concrete construction method, one would suggest that virtually all buildings that took advantage of this material’s design possibilities are not worthy of preservation. The Woolworth’s Building on Tacoma is another example. The Washington Talking Book and Braille Library in the Cascade neighborhood of Seattle used to be the Savidge Plymouth dealership before the business moved to Lake City Way. It is undoubtedly worthy of preservation. These are actually relatively rare buildings, compared with the much more ubiquitous c 1900-1925 commercial architecture of Seattle and Tacoma.

The “preservation of the recent past” is a growing issue. Consider that in the 1960s, when preservation took off as a movement, a downtown commercial building that was endangered would have been 50 or 60 years old—and people said the same thing then: “It’s old, decayed, in the way of progress.” We are very glad now for the foresight of a few dedicated folks—if you can visualize a downtown filled with buildings from the 1960s instead of Old City Hall Historic District. Likewise, imagine 30 years from now a St Helens neighborhood completely filled with Bellas on Broadway or Hanna Heights.

It was a shock to many to realize that WW2 related sites were historic and needed to be protected, because many folks remembered the 1940s and 1950s well. But the generations are passing. Bellevue, unfortunately, failed to protect one of its first urban office towers, the Puget Power Building (1956).

I won’t comment on the relative merits of the St Helens development versus preservation, but I certainly would take issue with the idea that these buildings are not worthy of our attention.

Modernist architecture is definitely endangered and underappreciated.

For an education, go to: www.docomomo-wewa.org

Thanks for that thorough examination, Tom, and the link, too. There are a few of us out on this limb, Brett. For eveyone who drives by but have never been inside, I encourage you to stop and take a look, while you still can. Check out the cars; check out the showroom. Look at the B-U-I-C-K detail on the handrail as you go down the spriral staircase. Check out the fins on the ’58 Eldorado downstairs. Imagine the building full of brand-new post-war Buicks, with two Roadmasters spinning on the turntables. Talk to Mr. Sharp – he’s a heck of a nice, soft-spoken guy. I’m glad he has given us the enjoyment of experiencing this building in a manner very close to it’s original use. But I’ve got dibs on the blue Plymouth, the Dodge Brothers downstairs, the Barracuda next to it…

Personally I dont see the beauty and value in this building, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we can debate this for hours. But the intersection of 6th and St. Helens is, and will increasingly become a major intersection of two very busy and important roads. Saving this building would be under-utilizing a corner lot on a major intersection. That is all I’m saying.

This area is going to look so different in 10 years, it is hard to imagine. I go back and forth on projects here and there in Tacoma, and whether the trade offs are good and/or valid, but true urban density is something that I am really looking forward to seeing (if done well). Tacoma lacks it anywhere in the City limits. I am looking forward to coming downtown at night and seeing the streets full of people, cars barely moving, and lines to get into restaurants. Restaurants of course that are tenants in historic buildings…

The TNT just posted a bit more info:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/updates/story/6327810p-5516071c.html

Anybody know which grocers are based in Arizona?

Tom Waits – Good, knowledgeable opinion regarding the architectural value of the Mueller Harkins Building as opposed to gut level hyperbole. Thanks.

I agree that the loss of the USA of Yesterday building will be a blow to the “funky factor” of the area. I am torn though on the idea of the building being considered historic. I’m sure that someone with enough dedication could gather up enough research to justify it being added to the registry – which, by the way, anyone can nominate a building, not just the property owner. Frankly, I think there are more significant buildings that we should be concerned about losing.

For example, just across the street at 424 St. Helens is the Detwiler & Rushmore Garage a wonderful 1910 former Cadillac showroom with massive old growth timber beams used in its construction. Those alone would go for a pretty penny on the open market. The building is pretty rough and has some deferred maintenance. Would it “pencil out” to save the building? Could it easily be converted into another use? Do we want to wait and find out?

I urge all of you who are concerned about loosing Tacoma’s historic architecture to join Historic Tacoma. Without historic buildings, we will be no more special than [insert any suburban city].

There is an article about the store in TNT today…....it’s about 4 blocks from thriftway…......what a waste…...it still doesn’t get the condo owners DOWNTOWN and grocery….....not to mention the soon to be owners along Thea Foss for all the proposed condos…..so much for the urban environment DOWNTOWN.....

Rich – If downtown could only have 1 grocery store I’d agree with you – get it more centrally located.
But in another 5, 10 years the downtown area could probably use another 2 or 3 grocery stores. This is a start. Next, maybe we’ll see another one near UWT.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/business/story/6328028p-5516252c.html

The Tribune article of today, “Downtown grocery in works”, does much to reveal the scale of development Metropolitain Real Estate Development has planned for the site and their properties accross the street. With this level of investment and development, there ought to be creative ways to make it pencil with both preservation and new construction. Historic preservation tax credits (let’s nominate the building for registry), transfer development rights, added value to Walker condo units with views that are enhanced and preserved.

A grocery too might work in the Mueller-Harkins Buick with new development still to the north. My imagination again at work…the showroom now transformed into a grocery deli with great visibility to the street, groups of tables for dining, and a quick stop for condo owners grabbing takeout to bring home. The remaining garage and auto service space converted to house grocery isles seems doable, even if it is partially split on two floors like Wholefoods in Portland. It’s our creativity that will make this happen and the neigbhorhood more rich.

I love the idea of a grocery in the neighborhood. I live three blocks away, a condo, in one of those brick classic apartment buildings which I too love. A grocery should be nearby, but here too we should realize the number of other properties that might work. A small grocier, like Marlene’s, could take space in the Spanish Colonial at 601 St. Helens or the old Packard dealership at 616 St. Helens, both underutilized buildings with delivery door access to the street. Or look at the opportunities for new construction on one of the vacant or surface parking lots, there are at least four potential sites within a few blocks.

Let’s wish Metropolitan Real Estate Develpment and other developers our best, but let’s also strive for creating the best of neighborhoods. Preserve and give life to the Mueller-Harkins and the St. Helen’s identity. Best!

Think massive rotating cheese displays.

I think the USA of yesturday building would be an ideal place for a fifties themed restaurant with all the classic cars parked around you to admire; waitresses in roller skates and Tv’s playing fifties movies/TV shows…....Milkshakes and great burgers….How fun would that be! we need more casual/family fun themed restaurants….(not these chains by the mall)

Does anyone know what is going on with the David’s on Broadway restaurant? is it still in business? hard to imagine considering how terrible that building looks!

The artist’s rendering in today’s TNT shows a truly urban block, something downtown has been lacking for years. I am extremely excited about being able to walk all the way up St. Helens without encountering a single vacant lot. It appears that that dream will soon be fulfilled.

As Erik has mentioned on numerous occasions, city planning is much more than looking at just one single building. With an expected population increase of at least 40,000 people over the next 20 years, Tacoma cannot afford to let marginally attractive (eye of the beholder) and less useful buildings such as the one on the corner dominate the policy agenda; otherwise the city will never grow to its potential.

Cities are constantly changing organisms, much like human beings. Their health and well being depends on the decisions made by its populace, planners and elected officials. Just the same as if any one of us turned down a big promotion because we would need a new telephone, the city of Tacoma could miss out on its chance for a big improvement if its citizens focus too intensely on something so trivial as historic preservation.

Don’t get me wrong: it’s a nice building. But it’s not worth selling out our city’s future for.

I was not planning on posting again, but Good Lord!

“Tacoma cannot afford to let marginally attractive (eye of the beholder) and less useful buildings such as the one on the corner dominate the policy agenda…”

...Rest assured historic preservation hardly dominates the policy agenda. Useful is also a value laden term, but I agree urban density and nice amenities like grocery stores are important. Nonetheless, you offer a false dichotomy—there is a lot of vacant space in Tacoma and if 50% of the underutilitized spaces were occupied, things would be a lot different. Without teardowns.

“Something so trivial as historic preservation….”

I believe Kent or Auburn could help with this analysis. Preservation shouldn’t be viewed as a separate issue. It is a core design and planning issue. It is a component of growth management. The point is that, for a hundred years, we’ve known in planning that there are reasons why growth needs to be managed—you don’t just allow anything to go anywhere. Real estate and free enterprise don’t make the best decisions for cities. They are a vital part of the whole thing. You are oversimplifying.

AND

“Don’t get me wrong: it’s a nice building. But it’s not worth selling out our city’s future for.”

Now THIS is hyperbole. OK, the importance of a corner at 6th and St Helens has been a little bit overplayed.

I agree with you, ca. Maybe we should relocate all of the low-intensity historic commercial buildings in Tacoma to that block. Or, better yet, why not subdivide the whole block to accommodate 4 or 5 single family homes? We’d really be showing our prowess as a low-density city then!

I wouldn’t get your hopes up just yet…

Here are few reasons:

1. Grocers usually seek a demographic of at least 10,000 residents within a one mile radius of the subject site. Downtown is still far off from reaching a critical mass of people for most national grocers to take any serious action. I’m not saying that it won’t happen eventually but downtown is still “green” for national grocers.

2. The “proposed” grocer from Arizona could be ‘AJ’s Fine Foods’; however, a Letter of Intent from the grocer only means interest. Those negotiations could be far off from a completed deal.

3. I too (as others previously mentioned) hope that the final designs are more inspiriing than those published in the Tacoma News Tribune. I think Metropolitan Real Estate Development still has a lot to learn. By reviewing some of their completed projects it is evident that new construction design is NOT their strong suit. One only has to look towards the new red and beige office/residential condo project completed on Broadway just around 4th. The building lacks sufficient floor heights, low profile slider windows (i.e. not large enough), an akwardly located and designed glass block screen from the street, and a poor color scheme.

Q: Why would the Grocery store not want to be at the southend of the project where they would actually obtain great visibility and a true “presence” in the project?

I AM HOPEFUL FOR TACOMA, BUT THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS.

“OK, the importance of a corner at 6th and St Helens has been a little bit overplayed.”

You gotta be kiddin me. Are you saying ANY corner lot is overplayed, or just this particular one? Either way I think you’re wrong.

Not ALL of our old buildings are being torn down. UWT/Union Station/Elks Temple/Albers Mill/Pantages/Rialto/Luzon Building/etc.. I really dont see this huge conspiracy or movement to demolish EVERY SINGLE historic building in Tacoma. I just dont see it. Maybe I’m blind.

“Don’t like progress? Move to Aberdeen! I am sure a community garage would fit in there.” On an 84 post thread, that sure sounded like the first real flame. While one can’t knock the developer, I think there’s fair reason to skeptical of the condo burst. I also think it is fair to voice frustration over the loss of such places where long-term projects are being constructed, when (even though nothing is wrong with it) all of the sudden you are told to pick up and move. Without even getting into the huge impact the automobile hobby has on the region, is the greater good more important? Sure. Is the solution for anyone who is impacted negatively be telling them to move to another town? I don’t think so.

Dave: WAY more diplomatic than me. Thanks.

Tom: WAY more guts (or something) than me.
(That project-car theme just struck a nerve with me.)
O.K., maybe we should all step back one. There was a complex, yet constructive discussion in here somewhere and I’m learning from all sides. But I’m picking Tom first for my kickball team.

Over in the forum, we’ve been talking about all that available space at freighthouse square. Seems like there’s more than enough room for a small grocery or permanent farmer’s market there, right now. I’m not sure why it’s necessary to tear down a building being put to a community use, when another building that is already very suitable is underutilized, it’s vendors struggling to bring people in?

Granted, it’s the other end of downtown, but there’s parking nearby and the link goes right there.

Well said, Rebecca. It is at the same time exciting and disheartening to watch all of the changes in the neighborhood. When I moved back to Tacoma (almost 10 years ago), people thought I was foolish to chose to live around here. I moved here for both the vibe and the fact that is/was affordable. It saddens me to think that I may no longer be able to afford to live in my neighborhood. There needs to be a better balance.

On a different note…What about the massive concentration of sex offenders living in the 400 blk. of St. Helens? I don’t think too many people will be thrilled to pay 500K to live across from a Level 3…

Granted, it’s the other end of downtown, but there’s parking nearby and the link goes right there.

I think the goal has been to have a grocery store downtown so that people living there can walk to it rather than having to drive to everything.

So Rebecca are you saying the developers are torching these properties?
Do you know how old the buildings were? What year was the wiring updated? Was the sprinkler systems working? Did they have sprinkler systems?

If you owned building and it burnt, was damaged badly and your insurance paid you for the building would you A) rebuild with the money you were paid or B) keep the insurance money and sell the valuable land?

And Rebecca yes the developers are trying to make the most money possible. They build to make money. Just like most companies money is the goal. A few of the developers on the Sharp project live in the neighborhood as well.

I think you have to think of a city and neighborhood a bit like the human race. They are constanly evolving. There are bumps in the road that not everyone is going to like. Hilltop is a great example. It is constanly changing. It went from a middle class neighborhood to a low income, high crime neighborhood, and now is turning into a neighborhood with a large mix of people and classes.

Now too add to that you must think of buildings as evolving things. Maybe it starts as piece of land, then a hotel is built. Years later it is turned into nice apartments then senior housing then low income slums and finally back to a grand hotelyo. Yeah you are mad about your building be turned into condos. I am sure the workers were mad when they lost their jobs when the building was turned from a hotel into an apartment building.
It is all part of a changing city. We are still early enough in the game where there is still plenty of room for everyone in our great city and will be for years to come.

And if you are interested in buying an affordable place downtown these places are still available: http://www.exit133.com/1335/grandview-hits-the-market

Rebecca~
Not sure if you are interested or not, but the brick building on the corner of 6th Ave. and G St. has a “For Rent” sign in the front lawn. It is directly across the street from the park. Bus stop is mere feet from the front entrance. No word if it is next on the chopping block!

Also (sorry it comes too late for you!) part of the legislative agenda this session includes a bill that provides advocacy and resources for renters displaced by condo conversions. This is driven, in part, to the crush of conversions in Seattle and the lack of rentals for “working-class” people. It will be interesting to see where this goes. My guess is not very far. I don’t think developers will be too pleased to pay-out to relocate renters. We’ll see…

Gorman, you appear to be putting low income people down as “sex offenders and drug dealers”. The people that lived in my building that were low income were not criminals, they were college students. What’s downtown? The University of Washington. They were people who for one reason or another, didn’t have cars, they used the bus. What’s downtown? The bus station. I realize that fixing up an area is essential to reducing crime, but you can fix a place up and still price it so that it’s available to someone who makes 30,000 a year. And by affordable, I do not mean a 540 square foot condo for $135,000. Another cheap way to reduce crime and improve a neighorhood: turn on the streetlights! The lights on the corner of 6th and St. Helens have been off for a minimum of 2 years. They are on now that people that have a lot of money are in the neighborhood, is that right? Is that progress? No, it’s catering to a select group of people, making sure they are safe from having their cars broken into on dark streets, making sure the prostitutes take their business into the alleys instead of on the dark streets! A simple way to clean up the ‘hood: turn on the lights! Maybe have the cops who refuse to deal with the drug dealers do their jobs, instead of going in the opposite direction when you point out the deal going on up the street.
In response to Jake: You have very valid points. Places do evolve, and should. I just think they can evolve in such a way as to benefit the people who have strived for many years to better this area, instead of a select few that have the money to reap the benefits of progress, and aren’t utilizing the UW or the bus system.
And yes, I think it is just a little coincidental that three seperate places, within three blocks of each other, of varying ages and conditions, all caught on fire, and now are all very lucrative properties. Am I accusing Prium of torching these places to build Jay Heights and Hanna Heights? Uh, no. Am I just pointing out to some thinkers out there that this is a strange thing? Yeah.

.first things first you need to get the money coming downtown…...

Get the criminals and drug dealers out of downtown and people of all income levels will bring themselves downtown to spend money and live. People still don’t come down here in significant numbers after dark and on weekends. Read the TNT letters to the editor about when they try to come down their cars are broken into or they see creepy people lurking.

....you appear to be putting low income people down as “sex offenders and drug dealers”

Not necessarily so, however high density low income housing projects are known to be magnates for crime (HUD studies verify this that’s why they’ve been demolishing these projects across the US for the past twenty-somethng years) – I know I live next door to the Olympus Hotel and across from the Winthrop and I have watched people from my living room smoking crack in their apartments.

I invested and bought a building downtown, rennovated it, and got it on the historic register. I’ve watched the Theater District deteriorate for the past five years because the area’s anchor tenants are low income housing, with more than 200 units in a two block area.

Laura I have said it before and I will say it again I do not think people skip coming downtown because of crime or issues with their cars getting broken into. I have never heard anyone complain except you. I don’t know anyone who is scared of downtown. They don’t come downtown because there is not a lot downtown to go to! You put in a Moroccan store that will only draw 1% of the population that wants a Moroccan themed room? (the store does look nice though) And I doubt the full 1% will go there when you have World Market and Pier 1 by the mall. Don’ a lot of these small businesses do most of their business online, where they can reach their “1%” all over the country instead of locally?

Restaurants are the only thing going for downtown right now. Everyone eats and you have choices, not everyone wants to buy little antiques and Moroccan treasures. Get some stores that the general public wants and can use and you will have a winner. I think it as simple as that.

I am not advocating high density low income housing in downtown. I am advocating affordable housing for those who hold jobs, and need a little help in the area of, for example, transportation by the bus system, which is centralized in downtown. Many criminals do not hold jobs for long due to the fact that their habits get in the way, you tend to lose jobs when your jail time cuts in. All I’m trying to point out is don’t push out hardworking adults or college students. How many people spend a lot of time in Seattle, in the expensive downtown area there? They condos are expensive, but the crime hasn’t gone away! Expensive housing is not THE answer to lessening crime, there has to be a balance.

Hello Everyone,

Well the cat’s out of the bag….

I am the local realtor helping in bringing true “Urban Living” vs., “Urban Dwelling” into the downtown Tacoma area.

As we all know, this will help bring so much life back to our wonderful city, and help from being called the “stepchild” to Seattle once and for all.

Not only am I working with this group, but several others that will bring over a half billion dollars of revenue into our fair city per year and over an addition 30,000 more jobs into Pierce County.

What has surprised me in the past several years and most recently, the past several months, is the true lack of vision so many builders and developers have for our city, and it has been way over due for someone like Metropolitan Builder’s to take the first steps in making Tacoma a true destination city. Again.

Hey, did anyone read Peter Callaghan’s article today? (Or everyone?) He discusses this very topic. I guess we’re ahead of the curve.

oh, and I think actually that a city is only as strong as it’s downtown…....

All these problems would be solved if the Kalakala was fixed. The Kalakala has been proven to fight crime: stopping drug & domestic partner abuse. The Kalakala is also resistant to sex offenders. The Kalakala hates traffic congestion. The Kalakala will finally put an end to sectarian violence and political corruption. The Kalakala knows if you’ve been bad or good. The Kalakala says: “in the name of freedom we are all enslaved.” The Kalakala knows only unconditional love. The Kalakala has an expiration date; and I find that ultra attractive.

As my previous posts would suggest, I’m with you, Brian. Proponents of the replacement of the Mueller-Harkins building say that progress can’t be stopped to save every last historical building. I’m inclined to agree with them, however I think that if we allow this building to be destroyed we will regret it 10 or 15 years down the road. We can’t save every old building in town, but we should make an effort to save the more unique properties that can add to the draw of being downtown. Tacoma’s downtown needs density, but it also needs creative, interesting sites and venues that will make people want to come downtown. She cannot compete with Seattle on density alone.

The most important parts of the Mueller-Harkins could be reused to make a truly impressive multiplex/imax/cinerama sort of theater (or a nice grocery store, restaurant/bar, etc) while stile providing plenty of lot for new construction. There are plenty of crap buildings near this intersection, I would rather seem one (or five) or those demolished for new construction.