The Roberson Now For Sale (15. January 2007, 11:11 by Derek Young) ~ Who Wants In?
Have you been waiting for the big new condo projects to start hitting the market – just to see what would happen around here? Let the fun begin. The Roberson on Market Street has released a few waves of new listings onto MLS this weekend. It’s situated near Opera Alley and down the street from the new rumored grocery store / restaurant(s). Your commute to City Hall could be something like… 200 feet. I currently see fifteen units with prices from $307k for 860 square feet to $679k for 1993 square feet. Buy now!
Link to The Roberson
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The cheapest offered on the web page is
652 – 975 sq. ft. priced from $241,000
One of the best designed and looking buildings being built in downtown Tacoma in my opinion. Ample commerical space below. Lots of balconies for people to be on. Right by the Vintage Y. A range of different priced and functioning units.
Your commute to City Hall could be something like… 200 feet.
Actually, the Roberson apparently has live/work units which means work could be just 15 feet away.
Thus, during the day, the commercial space and the live/work units could be drawing people to the area.
I second Erik’s comments. Just a great location too. I am hoping to buy a unit and relocate there from Santa Rosa, CA this summer. The live/work units are a great concept, almost enough to consider cancelling my retirement!
2 | Posted by michael | Jan 15, 02:54 PM
Let the fun begin. The Roberson on Market Street has released a few waves of new listings onto MLS this weekend
Hmmm. Looks like the Esplande at 1515 E. Dock Street (Foss Waterway) has now put their units online as well. They have been making alot of progress and list the date built as 2007.
My opinion is in accord with the above two; however, we just have to find a way to make these living spaces more affordable for the common people (read: almost every person that could commute to and work at City Hall). Unfortunately, the average Tacoman is not an attorney or near retirement like the above two posters. A unit that costs $241,000 means that the purchaser would have to have an annual income of almost $60,000 for the home to be affordable.
I am constantly amazed by the enormous cost of living here in American cities. While vacationing in Germany last week, I visited some new residential projects under construction that are similar to the Roberson, Marcato or the Prium projects. A brand-new 3 bedroom, 2 bath condo in the middle of the city, 3 blocks from a grocery store, 2 blocks from a streetcar station, with small shops and restaurants everywhere and a virtually non-existent crime rate costs about the same as a 600 square foot studio in downtown Tacoma. And of course at the Roberson, you’re a ten-minute walk from a grocery store, the streetcar to nowhere is a couple blocks away, and you’re in the middle of a city notorious for its crime.
How do we make some of these projects more affordable? I suggest the City take the lead by mandating that each new residential building have some affordable units or a certain square footage of affordable housing space.
Secondly, I estimate that prices could fall drastically if minimum parking requirements were abolished or altered to allow flexibity, as adding parking garage elements to any project can be prohibitively expensive to the developer, who passes the higher cost on to the consumer.
Finally, some of the added perks such as fitness centers, clubhouses, and movie theatres included as part of ownership in a new condo project likely drive the cost of the units up. Did you know that Marcato plans to hire a full-time concierge for its project at 15th and Tacoma? There are 93 condos there owned by empty nesters and retirees. The only time they could possibly need a concierge is when one of those old people has a heart attack and the concierge has to call an ambulance! Fun and jokes aside, having a concierge is probably just an excuse to increase the price of each unit a couple thousand bucks.
The real reason for all this bitching: despite a stable, middle class income, a young professional like myself would love to live in downtown Tacoma, but cannot afford a home there because the market is being flooded with these overpriced units. Someone please help!
4 | Posted by drizell | Jan 15, 06:32 PM
Secondly, I estimate that prices could fall drastically if minimum parking requirements were abolished
I have to agree with you on that one. Tacoma is the only large city out of Bellingham, Olympia, Seattle, or Portland to require off street parking in their downtown.
Here’s what Professor Donald Shoup says about the connection of parking and the barrier it causes for the construction of low income housing:
Off-street parking requirements especially harm low-income and renter families because they own fewer cars but still pay for parking indirectly.” Nonprofit developers in San Francisco have estimated that parking requirements add 20 percent to the cost of each affordable housing unit and reduce the number of units that can be built on a site.”
The off-street parking requirements are also thwarting our efforts to infill the empty parking lots downtown, have much height to buildings, or attract businesses (retail) and makes the success of mass transit difficult.
Also, it makes making attractive builings difficult as each one has to have a surface level parking lot or the first few floors consist of a parking garage.
drizell:
I appreciate that housing prices in Germany are cheaper (a friend has a studio in Berlin he pays a few hundred bucks for a month), but one fact is that their real estate market has been in terrible shape for a decade. Between 1997 and 2005, housing prices actually Germany dropped .2 percent. We are seeing the flip side here—a market that is doing well and, as a result, shutting out many.
Of course, if the market tanks here as well, we may see all kinds of bargains downtown…
6 | Posted by UPSPatrick | Jan 15, 10:10 PM
As in conversations I’ve had with a few people off-line, I believe city-planner drizzell makes some very valid points. Real-estate is far from being a forte of mine (I’m unworthy of such a long post), so I enjoy reading all sides of this issue, because this sure isn’t the Tacoma I know ;-) . I really know very few people who can afford these units. And of the ones who can, absolutely none would want expensive apartment condo-living. Wait – I know a few now, so maybe it’s Tacoma-generation-thing. It’s exciting that this is happening, and as an essential part of downtown revitalization, if there are people to fill these, that’s great. But in the back of my mind I wonder what will really happen when all of these condo’s become available, and we have those four-star hotel(s). Does anyone have (or is it too early) some real-world projections on non-speculative condo-purchases? What’s the typical profile? Where do they work (and are they hiring)? Will they all have to be filled by CA’s like Michael in post #2 (no offense, Michael)? As in a recent off-line discussion, the talk seems to be weighted towards double-income/no-kids. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’ll be priced out of downtown before long. (Or if UPSPatrick’s last statement is a prediction, maybe I’ll actually be movin’ on up.) I’m concerned that even with a decent, professional (but not over-the-top) working wage; the cost of living will just get tougher and out-pace raises and promotions. And growing families. I mean, $3/4 million for a couple, maybe one child, in the s.f of a small bungalow? $1/4 million for essentially at best, 30’ x 30’? Maybe there will remain affordable units downtown, but just under-the-radar. Not trying to be negative (so I’ve avoided the Kool-Aid metaphor), but I’m still baffled and learning, because I really come from a diffent mind-set.
7 | Posted by Dave L. | Jan 16, 12:42 PM
The developers are going to sell their condos for whatever they can get for them. If there’s no one to buy them at the prices they set, they will lower the prices until someone buys them. That’s the business of the matter.
If you want to live downtown, you’re going to have to pay a premium. Better deals can be found if you are willing to live just a little bit further away.
The City Steps project and McCarver Village project are both examples of much better prices and still pretty close to downtown. When you consider the property tax abatement, a middle class income can realistically make this work.
8 | Posted by Gorman | Jan 16, 01:11 PM
For what it’s worth, I share some of Dave’s sense of confusion about the price of condos downtown. I hope that they all sell, and sell for something near what the developers are counting on. My concern is for the longer run, and is caused by what seems to be a strange price relationship between the condos and nearby houses. A 700sf 1BR unit at Reverie (just for example) runs about the same today as a 1,500 sf – 2,000sf house on the Hilltop on a modest lot. I’ll take a leap here and compare the Hilltop of today to the Capitol Hill (of Seattle) 20 or 25 years ago. Both are within walking distance of their respective downtown areas, have some amenities, and are perhaps a little more “edgy” at night. Now let’s compare the cost of a 700sf downtown Seattle condo today to a Capitol Hill house: the condo is going to run upwards of $375,000, but the house is going to be double that. I don’t think that the relative prices of downtown condos and close-in houses in Tacoma make sense.
I hope that speculation isn’t the main driver of prices because I’d prefer steady, sustainable growth downtown to a boom-and-bust explosion. I also hope that the rate of price increases will be slowing at least a bit because, speaking purely out of self interest, I’d hate to see all of the condos filled with retirees or investment bankers. What I selfishly crave for Tacoma is the ability to retain post-HS/UPS/UWT, pre-married-with-children folks like me.
Sidebar for UPSPatrick/Drizell/anyone else who cares: if Germany’s property values have depreciated 0.2% over the last ten years (nominal terms? real?) and given the high price of construction materials in recent years, how is there even new construction taking place? Government subsidies?
9 | Posted by Erik S | Jan 16, 05:17 PM
Erik:
Inflation has been minimal in Germany over the past decade, and similarly, property values have stayed at roughly the same level as they were in 1991. Accordingly, construction of multi-family buildings has dramatically declined. I suppose there can always be spots where construction is ongoing, whether through tax breaks or a locally strong economy (as in Bavaria) There’s a good powerpoint on this on the Deutsche Bank’s website here
Didn’t mean to hijack the thread with talk of Germany’s real estate market, and now my knowledge in that area is officially tapped out!
10 | Posted by UPSPatrick | Jan 16, 09:22 PM
$365 per sq. ft.!!!
Yikes!
If you paid CASH ($307,000) and wanted to get only a 5% return to offset ONLY inflation you would have to lease the unit out for almost $1,300 per month plus taxes, insurance, and utilities!
11 | Posted by Amanda Huginkis | Jan 18, 11:55 PM
I’m fairly new to Tacoma (going on 3yrs here) and I’m somewhat shocked at all the condo-bashing comments. Has the cost of living elsewhere been considered? Tacoma’s cheap, one of the reason’s I moved here. It also has a lot to offer, is in the beautiful Pacific NW, close to a major airport (no long drive to get there or puddle jumping flight first), restaurants, arts, etc.
I may just be a DINK, so my opinion won’t count as much, but I have had the experience of being priced out of plenty of other cities and downtowns; so I moved. Keeping downtown “affordable” is not going to create the city we all want. In effect, hasn’t Tacoma being trying that before this recent growth period?
I may be wrong in the long-term; I hope I’m not for my situation, our situations and Tacoma’s. Until then, I’ll keep living in a condo by choice (why live in a house?) and support the local businesses.
12 | Posted by MG | Jan 19, 09:51 AM
I supposed value depends on what your experience has been. If you have spent your entire life in San Francisco or Manhattan or other high-priced places, you may think Tacoma is cheap. But if you’ve spent a lot of time in other industrialized countries or even here in Tacoma as recently as 5 years ago, you would be shocked at the rising cost of life in a city that still does not offer a truly urban experience yet.
13 | Posted by drizell | Jan 19, 01:10 PM
I agree with the people who are concerned about the prices in Tacoma. These condos are not affordable to “middle class” working people. I lived in downtown Tacoma because I needed to use the bus system and the apartments were affordable (I paid about 700 for a 1 bedroom). Now I have been evicted from my apartment so they can go condo, and moved to an area that doesn’t offer easy bus access. The people who can afford to buy these condos (remember to add in monthly condo fees of at least 200 dollars to the purchase price!) are not working in the shops downtown, and they don’t need the bus. There are not many apartments available for rent downtown any more, but I have noticed that the condos aren’t selling and are being rented out!
14 | Posted by Rebecca | Jan 21, 12:44 AM
I think that Drizell has hit the nail on the head here. There have been a lot of positive developments in Tacoma over the past few years (and more) and I’m still optimistic about its future, but for all of the downtown area’s progress in terms of appearance and safety, I just don’t think that its current amenities justify the price premium that’s reflected in the condos going up nowadays. I like Fujiya, and the Harmon’s okay, but for the most part I think that the goings-on downtown are a lot less interesting than those on the Hilltop, in the Stadium area, or on 6th. Bus service is better downtown, but the last bus from Seattle is leaves at something like 11:15 and the last one from Olympia is far earlier, so it’s not like you can just hop a bus to anywhere. Adding to the issue, you can’t even really take care of basic shopping needs downtown (see, for example, the rather contentious discussion about the rumored grocery at 6th and St Helens).
Why would I pay $250K and up for a 1BR condo downtown when I’d want to leave downtown (at least for the Hilltop or Stadium area) to do most anything, especially if a house on the hilltop runs less than the condo? I think that part of the answer is that buyers are looking forward to having new amenities coming downtown. So the prices are reflecting speculation about things that haven’t yet happened. This makes me nervous about the possibility of a downtown price bubble. Hopefully my fears aren’t well founded. But you won’t see me buying any of the new condos downtown.
As for the question of afforbility in Tacoma generally, I’m afraid that I don’t see an easy answer. The loss of downtown-area apartments to condo conversion/new construction is a tough problem because there aren’t very many areas in Tacoma with that sort of apartment density. The Lincoln area, for example, is fairly close to downtown and relatively affordable, but it doesn’t have anywhere near the number of units to absorb the displacement of downtown residents. Maybe that’s just the price of progress, but it’s a sad thing.
Man, my $550 apartment in the Webster looks like a steal in hindsight.
By the way, for those that prefer condos to houses generally (doesn’t help the renters, I know but…) I think that the units in this Stadium-area building look like a good deal compared to the new stuff downtown:
[link omitted because I don’t know html or whatever]
I’m sorry that my attempt to link didn’t work. Perhaps someone in the know could provide a link. For now, if you want to see what I’m talking about, go to something like windermere.com or johnlscott.com and enter MLS # 27011526. This is the cheapest unit. They go up to about $210. It’s not right downtown, but not too far either.
(No, I’m not selling them. I’m a renter.)
15 | Posted by Erik S | Jan 21, 07:58 PM
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