This is fantastic progress in the style of development. Townhomes are fine, but they always imply that everyone wants their own garage – which really makes density difficult.

I do have to note that the sales prices are still ~$300/sf. This seems to be where the market is at for new construction in downtown. It’s good to see the additional housing types added to the new construction stock.

Foofy organic is fine with me. We will take what we can get. We have a Safeway on 11th and that has the least amount of foof as any grocery store I have seen.

Drizell-

I expect you’re not a big fan of townhomes as the prime residential driver in a downtown. If this is correct, how do you suggest the City give up this habit?

The location is great because it is by UWT which needs a ton more housing for students.

The number of developments must be getting to a point where some retail makes sense.

Looks like the closest thing to artist studios is going to be offered:

Ten studio condos with approximately 467 square feet will sell for $156,460 to $165,801, according to the company’s project summary.

The apartments will rent for $760 a month for a studio to $1,520 a month for a two-bedroom unit with a den

It also shows how much more affordable the units if some were occupied by people who pledged to ride transit and forego a $25,000 parking space.

At the lower cost level, the parking space makes a difference in cost difference of 20 percent which would certianly allow more people to purchase market rate housing if it were not required.

“We’re definitely targeting U-Dub students,” Casey Ingels said.

Should the city be requiring every college student to have a car three blocks from campus, or at least a space for one? Schools usually discourage car use. I would be nice if they decoupled car use and the housing so that a parking space was an additional benefit they could purchase if they choose to so that the basic housing was more affordable.

Not surprisingly, I’m with HTG posting above. A boutique grocery store will maybe make it look like the downtown many of you want us to look like, and maybe it makes business sense; I don’t know, it’s not my bailywick. As a matter of discussion, and at the risk of sounding negative and not very 133, my honest question is if the desire for a boutique store is for the products, or the image it portrays, or the certain profile of people it wil attract? Because value-wise, for me, it would be for just for an occasional treat. I’m just a real person with an average wage with average mouths to feed. Also, I’m honestly curious why in every grocery discussion; Stadium Thriftway seems to be ignored. I usually shop at even less expensive grocery stores, but half of the time I go there, and it a fine, friendly Tacoma institution. And aren’t they building a new, bigger store soon? (With condos above, blah, blah, blah, for those of you into that sort of thing). Is it the selection, or is it too far away? BTW, I’d dig a Trader Joe’s, and I agree a variety of options would be nice.

My first apartment that I shared with my wife was 750 square feet with one car port. That was a one bedroom, one and one half bath with a living/dining area, kitchen as well. Take away the living/dining and maybe it would be 525. Take away the one half bath (down to 467?) and you have a place to cook, eat at the counter and sleep. Maybe it is time to invest in futons again.

Now, while I agree 467 is small, there are plenty of one-bedrooms in the area that are that. In fact, that’s what a lot of college (and senior) housing tends to be. While at PLU, I lived in the Garfield Street apartments where I shared an approx. 300-sq-foot place with a friend for a semester, then a 450-sq-foot space the next year. My mother-in-law lives in a space barely more than 400. My grandmother, too. And yes, it’s small. But what’s it include? A bedroom, full bath, tiny apartment kitchen, an eating nook and living area. Small, but quite doable. Though probably not for folks who have sizable art projects or other space-needing priorities. And definitley meant for one, MAYBE two. But you still have room for small to medium parties. Especially with what developers are doing with space right now. And most apartment and condo-plexes have social rooms or even movie rooms you can reserve if you want something bigger. It’s not as small as it seems … and if students are one of the main target audiences … I think the size is right on. It’s way bigger than any dorm room I ever had …

I agree that Sprouts looks like a likely grocer—the same one I came up with in my search. They look to me a bit like Tacoma Boys…and that would be a good thing.

I was wondering how long it would take before the decorum started to erode on this great site.

And for those who need a little more room, think Murphy beds, lofted beds, etc. And whether you’re an IKEA furniture fan or not, they have lots of great ideas on how to organize and live big in small spaces.

Oh, yes a dinkytown studio is just fine for folks with no stuff,no family, no activities…..So students and young singles are the target audience there….OK, fine….still nothing in TTown for folks like me anymore…....but if you are an artist (did ya’ll not read my post!!) there is no room for creativity….Just saying, miniature is fine if you don’t know any better…I owned homes in TTown in years past….but just 7 short years ago, a 2000 sq ft house in the outskirts of the North End sold for about 150K Folks! So, the price of a dinkytown studio will be priced the same as a 1100 sq ft condo at 325K-ish….Being able to talk the talk, and walk the walk and produce facts is not whining ….it’s called Dialogue…it goes like this..I say something…you say something…I say something…you say something…..World Peace….and maybe a developer/housing fairy is reading this and maybe a light bulb will go on! did chihuly craft that glass in a studio? How big was it? once again, if you’re gonna pay big bucks for a lifestyle, one should support the “incubator” or all you Will Get is pre-fab boutiques…is that what you want?

The next thing you know, old Jeb’s a millionaire.
His kin folk said, Jeb, move away from there.
They say Tacoma, Washington’s the place you want to be.
Just spend your million bucks on 3000 square feet.

Swimming pool (shared in the complex)
Movie Stars (on cable)

Sigh, mansions aren’t what they used to be.

VV:

Debate and decorum are not incompatible. No one is suggesting that everyone has to agree.

I also don’t live in UP. Eastside Rules OK—

VV, in the spirit of discussion, I am curious why you are holding this development accountable to create artist loft spaces? Nothing in the article mentions anything about the developers building spaces for artists or making any kind of presumption that a 467 sq. ft. condo would be appropriate as a live/work space.

I would also add that if you want art lofts in Tacoma, there are actually a fair number of options, including the top floor of the Merlino Art Center and some other pretty cheap space.

Regarding, your other comments about a 2000 sq. ft. house on the outskirts of Tacoma for $150K, parts of the Hilltop still has prices under $200K for about the same size.

I would not pay so much for a small space, and clearly you would not either. But as a “starter home” for a 23 year old single person who wants to start building equity, but can’t afford to furnish a larger place, it’s a very attractive deal.

I feel like you’re judging the housing based on what your needs are but not on what others might want or need right now.

I’m in a 600 sq. ft. 1 br, small bath. Granted, I live alone. I don’t entertain much, but have scoped out a double-drop leaf table and folding chairs for dining.

In suburbia, one is isolated from anything, requiring a significant car trip for every destination. The value of the house dependent completely in square footage, kitchen nooks, yard size number of garages.

On the other hand, the benefit of downtown living (at least in theory) is that the value lies in the location of your living space and the ability to walk easily to numerous locations such as third spaces rather than the amenities in your private condo.

Continuing in the spirit of dialogue…since no one gains much by posting in A Mutual Admiration Society Site…....in the beginning way up at the top,in post 8, it was suggested: Looks like the closest thing to artist studios is going to be offered…..so, that’s what started my contributions to the condo/RE comments…...Anyone who really thinks that a dinky space like that is do-able for an artist loft except as a showplace is just goofy and/or un or misinformed about what artists need and really want in a community…..I’ve been in TTown for 25 years…Every single time the movers/shakers have talked about doing something creative I have learned that is a code word/phrase/concept for “pricing real estate neighborhoods out of the hands of creative people”......Do young singles and richies of all ages “own” downtown? No. But they and only they are being catered to as if no one else mattered….because according to developers and the politicians that love them, nobody else does matter….It was said “artists will find a way.” Why? Why do I have to do all the work to find what I want in the area? Why is only a certain demographic catered to….and the rest of us…meh?......Really, I’ve survived a long time….and accomplished a lot with about 10% of what many posters here take for granted…credit, connections and trustfunds….....and I’ll keep on keeping on…........I just get so sick of BS…every city in America is pulling this big sham/scam….“We want creative types…we just don’t want to help them or subsidize them…We will subsidize developers and large corporations”.......OK fine! Do it ! Just don’t tell me Tacoma is encouraging artists and art JUST because there are a few new museums and a Hobo Train, etc…..while low-income housing downtown is being taken away, pushing people out for Your Sanitized Pleasure….Because no, Tacoma is not encouraging artists..Tacoma is encouraging consumers of art…..2 completely different things…Art …as if it is as importable as rice and sugar…..And I have as much right to find affordable housing as any one else and my government should subsidize me as much as anyone else….Me = anyone not wealthy…you know …the bartenders, the cooks, the janitors, the people who really make your forays around town pleasant…I’m just asking the question: Why is it assumed the well to do should be subsidized to live in downtown and that is a good thing, but the minute someone asks for affordable subsidized housing for the other half, somehow that is asking for too much…..And sorry for mistaking UP for UPS yikes…I only live a few blocks from UPS and have for 25 years or so!!....Oh, I’m really not as mad as my post here may seem…that’s what is missing with this type of communication…My wink and nod, and my earnest asking open body language…..it is a legitimate debate all should be concerned with…today me, tomorrow you? wink wink chuckle, nervous titter…..

palatable safe “art” and commodifiable “art” is support by the orgs you mention,erikemery….I see Chihuly-Safe-Ikea commodifiable art promoted…...John Clinton facing federal charges….and the taggers, fer instance, are very challenging….and…what’s the fellow’s name that GonzoStyle-sets up on street corners around the North end mostly…not my cup of cornflakes as far as what I like, but he’s living the artist life…...I shall keep going….but I won’t hold my breath that what I do the type not just me the person) will ever get a grant….or serious promotion…......
I know many many artists in Tacoma…drink with ‘em all the time…...they are lovely folks but not challenging the dominant paradigm….and that is just my opinion, man (3 points for that cinematic ref…).....And yes, “snobs” are everywhere…....and the council NOT promoting housing for the income segment that decidedly cannot afford even a downtown closet condo, is a form of Snobbery! ..........Since I have been here in TTown for about 25 years and used to own houses on a working class income….I know that a person with a factory job, say packing chili at Nalley’s could easily buy a house in Tacoma…a pretty nice house in a pretty nice neighborhood…..That is all 99% gone…Those are facts, Jack…....HEY! wasn’t this really about grocery stores…..and the grocery on 11th IS a grocery store…shopped there many times with kinds of people I don’t see when I shop at the Metropolitan Market…I do see a mix of people at Stadium Thriftway….I told you I’ve been here a long long time!! You likely don’t know that there was a PigglyWiggly at 6th/union where the Bartels is, and a grocery store at 6th/stevens where Walgreens is…and many more…....I’d love a Trader Joes downtown-ish…..I hate driving out to UP (ukky).........the thinning of grocery stores/hardware stores etc. is a big subject, but it is a Choice to promote Trickle Down Condo projects under the guise of helping all of Tacoma…and I don’t agree with that choice….I don’t agree that promoting art that is palatable and safe is the same as promoting art….Like I said, I fully understand the opinion that is different from mine…I have to…you created the dominant rubric under which I must live…And if you refuse to at least look at life in Tacoma from my point of view, the point of view of those of us who aren’t wealthy and have been pushed to the margins through no fault of our own….I simply ask: How much of a thinker are you?

To bring it back to the grocery stores, VV, there was no choice that any one person made to thin out hardware stores and grocery stores. Rather the heavy suburbanization of towns, reliance on cars, and significant advances in refrigeration made large supermarkets more cost effective for grocery store operators than many small ones. As a result, the corner markets that used to support local neighborhoods within walking distance has all but disappeared.

The thinning certainly does not “promote” the condo projects, but it actually hurts all urban housing projects, from low income units to luxury condos because it forces reliance on cars, when one of the key benefits of urban living is not needing a car. As is usually the case, this hurts low income families the worst.

As Tacoma becomes more urban rather than suburban, we can only hope that the higher density puts more neighborhood markets back on the map. If we can successfully integrate low-income housing and luxury condos, then both will benefit from living downtown and we can avoid some of the worst problems of gentrification.

Jake, that’s a great tale of success! I hope your neighborhood gets named soon. :)

It is 2 blocks away from the campus border. The campus won’t be built up the hill for probaly 10-20 years.

Another issue is the hill, it is not fun for most. I know for me and others I know and spoken to. many don’t trek down the hill because what goes down must come back up (we need a streetcar!)

Next issue. The city and UWT don’t make it a very freindly walk down 19th or 21st. Missing Sidewalk, overgrown brush, no crosswalks on 21st at Yakima and Tacoma Ave, poor lighting. RR should do a nice little illustration for the city showing Point A, the residential neighborhood around Yakima and Point B The UWT area. In the middle add a pit full of bad stuff. How do you get the folks from Point A to Point B without having to walk through the nasty PIT??? If the city would do what they expect from their residents it would make a huge difference.

There is a coffee shop 5 blocks away at the UWT but the coffee shop going next the grocery store is a flat 5 blocks away through nice (for the most part) tree lined streets. Huge difference. Do you want to do the hill every morning for your cup of coffee? I don’t.

AND DON’T FORGET TO COME TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD CLEANUP – SATURDAY (TOMMORROW) At 10am!!!
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hey, rich, I like apples just fine….I have a 4way apple tree in my yard (I planted it !)can we make a pie?.....and if anyone is sorry that the new plan for Tacoma is to continue to make life unnecessarily dificult for those not earning upwards of 60K, I hope ya’ll will join me and folks like me, and always use every valid opportunity to advocate for inclusion and diversity…..and reject the notion that a civil democratic society “red-lines” and places immutable “economic” gated communities in certain neighborhoods…..And aint it funny that folks least likely to own a car are the low-income,who have always been the pioneers and consistent users of public transportation, yet they are pushed out of urban density zones? .....what an interesting discussion this has been!

drizell please pontificate more. You know what you’re talking about and have a unique perspective on these issues.

I would most like to see a grocery – like PCC or another co-op – in the heart of downtown. Somewhere in the middle of S. 15th and S. 19th and also between Pacific and Fawcett. This would truly be walking distance from businesses and condos and not a long walk from the Link either.
Sometimes I just want an apple in the middle of the day!
I bus and/or bike to work and 25th and Yakima is not exactly the heart of downtown.

It appears that artists like Violent Vodka (I’m assuming that he/she is an artist) now want to reject the historical artists’ struggle for mere survival in favor of a comfortable existence in new mixed use projects in a rapidly gentrifying part of town
————————-
Ok this was said by drizell…...Violet Vodka….Please!
So purple…so drinkable…...I never said I wanted a middle class life handed to me on a platter…..I said I bemoan the loss of cheap digs and the Real urban pioneers…who are being displaced and/by the subsidization of Corporations at the expense of Tacomans…....It’s Trickle Down again man…..I’m all for the Pretty and Sensible….My view is that housing tax-breaks and other incentives for the working poor and the middle class who are already here should have been first in line…...and since Artists are so revered…why wasn’t means-tested housing made available for the folks who are supposedly the catalyst….the darlings….the innovators….the reason for Living!! or thought of….at all???
Just saying…..if you are an artist….do not apply to live in the tax-payer subsidized new Yup housing because a starving artist can’t afford it….and will be evicted soon…from where he lives …..That’s my view….you may disagree…I just know there is Another Way…..Be Courageous and Create A New Trail! omnia extares!

“Eliminate an artist’s ability to exist in a city and you will see the city start to die.” – there are plenty of semi-affordable places in nyc. they just don’t fall along the sexy subway lines.. more often they are letters rather than numbers. if someone has the scratch to pick up in manhattan and land in berlin, then, i suspect they can probably afford a cozy spot in bed-stuy or jamaica city or even spanish harlem. anything being built in tacoma not first described as “luxury condos” is cool by me.

It seems that mnay older cities have the extremely poor and extremely wealthy living in their downtown. This typically comes about due to the proximity to services, entertainment & access.

(Thanks for the comments above. It’s interesting to note that Tacoma does have minimum densities in its downtown – however these densities are similar to what Pierce County has in it’s small lot single family zones. This allows for a low-medium density downtown of townhomes.)