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General : We Have a Winner
Our Very Special Square
Last night at the City Council meeting, the City of Tacoma’s Downtown Redevelopment was honored with an award by the Washington State Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration. Every year they recognize outstanding projects for their “Awards of Excellence”. The 2007 winner of the “Best Special Project Award” was….
Tollefson Square.
Wow. We don’t know what say.
Link | Posted on 24. October 2007, 10:44
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A perfect bookend to the decision to tear down Murray Morgan, no?
1 | Posted by UPSpatrick | Oct 24, 11:14 AM
Tollefson friggin’ square? Oh my golly. That nest of concrete surrounded by asphalt and steel rail?
unless by ‘special’ they mean ‘little bus special’
2 | Posted by RR Anderson | Oct 24, 12:07 PM
Is it a true square? I was wondering about this.
3 | Posted by kc | Oct 24, 12:15 PM
Pacific Ave. is part of the “square” but I haven’t seen Pac Ave. closed yet for any events there.
4 | Posted by Jake | Oct 24, 12:32 PM
Every year they recognize outstanding projects for their “Awards of Excellence”. The 2007 winner of the “Best Special Project Award” was….
Before they made the award, did they make any inquiry as to how much the Tollefson Plaza is used?
The Plaza unfortunately is an example of how not to place a blank piece of concrete in the middle of no where just to create “open space.”
Tollefson Plaza is unfortunately one of those “Promenades that go from no place to nowhere and have no promenaders.” (Quote from Jane Jacobs)
Was they anyone studied the matter in the design phase and concluded that a blank concrete pad bordered by a road with no parking, a blank wall and a transit track would attract anyone?
The one shot the Plaza had to have some activity was from the Marriot. Yet, the Plaza was designed to place a wall between the main area and the restaurant location on Pacific. Nor is the Marriot designed to interact with the plaza.
It has been empty coming on 2 years now. I think its time to consider placing some sort of building on at least a portion of it.
5 | Posted by Erik B. | Oct 24, 12:37 PM
“I think its time to consider placing some sort of building on at least a portion of it.”
Or trees and grass, or a big piece of art, or something. Really, all it does most of the time is cut Pacific Ave in half by creating a wasteland in the middle of it, and being across the street from the concrete TAM doesn’t help (I kinda like the design of TAM, btw). I’m not going to say that having a park there is a bad idea (I think Tacoma could stand to have roughly 3 times more park space) but the square is so horrendously poorly executed that it discourages me from feeling like Tacoma has the brains in planning offices to have a real shot at renewal.
6 | Posted by Elliot | Oct 24, 01:57 PM
What good is an award if you only got it because everyone walked all over you?
7 | Posted by Mofo from the Hood | Oct 24, 02:59 PM
some kind of public art piece that could also be used as a playground (kinda like “the family” at the point defiance zoo, but bigger) would be really cool. Who knows if anyone would use that, either, but it would be cool.
8 | Posted by jenyum | Oct 24, 05:22 PM
C’mon people the award is from a couple of organizations that love concrete. Tollefson plaza (square?) has concrete, lots of concrete.
9 | Posted by DavidS | Oct 24, 08:50 PM
Consider the source, maybe this will inspire them to fund the spire to straddle the track? Better yet, fix the bridge.
10 | Posted by johnschoppert | Oct 24, 09:37 PM
C’mon people the award is from a couple of organizations that love concrete. Tollefson plaza (square?) has concrete, lots of concrete.
I have to agree with that sentiment. They are both road building groups. Skilled at moving people fast through areas, not creating a vibrant downtown.
Here’s another criteria from the Project for Public Spaces which is more appropriate:
(They even have a chart)
Project for Public Spaces (PPS) has found that successful ones have four key qualities: they are accessible; people are engaged in activities there; the space is comfortable and has a good image; and finally, it is a sociable place: one where people meet each other and take people when they come to visit
From that criteria, the Plaza fails on nearly each and every criteria.
Here’s more:
Are people using the space or is it empty?
Is it used by people of different ages?
Are people in groups?
How many different types of activities are occurring – people walking, eating, playing baseball, chess, relaxing, reading?
Which parts of the space are used and which are not?
Are there choices of things to do?
Is there a management presence, or can you identify anyone is in charge of the space?
Unfortunately, Tollefson Plaza doesn’t have enough life to even think of applying the criteria.
Wait, here’s more:
Questions to consider on Sociability:
Is this a place where you would choose to meet your friends? Are others meeting friends here or running into them?
Are people in groups? Are they talking with one another?
Do people seem to know each other by face or by name?
Do people bring their friends and relatives to see the place or do they point to one of its features with pride?
Are people smiling? Do people make eye contact with each other?
Do people use the place regularly and by choice?
Does a mix of ages and ethnic groups that generally reflect the community at large?
Do people tend to pick up litter when they see it?
On a more positive note, the Plaza may have some potential for large events if they are in demand enough. We will see. Let’s give in another year and see what portion of the time it is used.
11 | Posted by Erik B. | Oct 24, 10:00 PM
Definitely consider the source. This award isn’t coming from a state or national group that is intimately knowledgable about urban planning and design issues. This award comes from an agency whose primary function is to build and maintain roads. Tollefson Plaza probably looks like a real work of art—as long as you only experience it from your car as you cruise past at 30 mph. But obviously, as the previous posts have shown, anyone who has spent 5 minutes in the Plaza tells a different story.
I hope this award doesn’t help our leaders justify any more bad design of public spaces using taxpayer dollars.
12 | Posted by drizell | Oct 24, 11:47 PM
Oh, funny I almost fell for it ! An award for — Prison Yard on Pacific? Surely you jest ! and stop calling me Shirley —
13 | Posted by Tressie | Oct 25, 09:37 AM
Heh. Erik B’s reference reminded my of a square in Cincinnati that I did an observation exercise in P-school. Good thing I brought a magazine.
I’ve been trying to find it using Google Maps but, alas, the shadows cast by the office buildings have thus far prevented the discovery that I crave like a tenderloin sandwich.
Actually, what confuses me most is the source of the award. What would DOT and the Highway Administration find in a well-designed public square? Shouldn’t they be giving an award to a bridge or a tunnel or something?
14 | Posted by Erik S | Oct 25, 10:37 AM
Why can’t we just loosen the city’s ordinances regarding street vendors and set them up there? If Tacoma wants feet on the street, they need some reason for the feet to go THERE.
I could go for some turkey legs and kettle korn…
15 | Posted by JC | Oct 26, 06:13 PM
Personally I like the Theater Square by the Tacoma Actor’s Guild on Broadway. They have signs there that say “no loitering”. They have seating and nice grassy areas yet they do not allow loitering. What is wrong with this picture?
16 | Posted by Crenshaw Sepulveda | Oct 26, 09:37 PM
Is the square large enough to use for the farmers market? What were some of the uses envisioned for it? I drive by and think of Xgames, it needs a bowl. Maybe we could figure out how to freeze the Plaza and create our own Rockefeller square. Imagine ice skating down town.
17 | Posted by CJ | Oct 27, 10:04 PM
I came across these quotes on “open spaces” from Jane Jacobs : Death and Life of Great American Cities which are unfortunately applicable to many of the downtown Tacoma’s green spaces. She would certainly win the COTW”:
In orthodox city planning, neighborhood open spaces are venerated in an amazingly uncritical fashion, much as savages venerate magical fetishes. Ask a houser how his planned neighborhood improves on the old city and he will cite, as a self-evident virtue, More Open Space. Ask a zoner about the improvements in progressive codes and he will cite, again as a self-evident virtue, their incentives toward leaving More Open Space. Walk with a planner through a dispirited neighborhood and though it be already scabby with deserted parks and tired landscaping festooned with old Kleenex, he will envision a future of More Open Space.
More Open Space for what? For muggings? For bleak vacuums between buildings? Or for ordinary people to use and enjoy? But people do not use city open space just because it is there and because city planners or designers wish they would.”
(ouch) pg. 90.
But American cities today, under the illusions that open land is an automatic good and that quantity is equivalent to quality, are instead fritting away money on parks, playgrounds and project land-oozes too large, too frequent, too prefunctory, too ill-located, and hence too dull or too inconvenient. City parks are not abstractions, or automatic repositories of virtue or uplift, any more than sidewalks are abstractions…
Generalized parks can and do add great attraction to neighborhoods that people find attractive for a variety of uses.”
page 110 – 111.
18 | Posted by Erik B. | Nov 4, 09:21 PM
Portland built a great public square in the middle of downtown. Its well used, and has a great sculpture that plays a fanfare each day at noon and has different symbols for the day’s weather. Its pretty cool. Its really well designed. Oh yeah, it was well thought that it would only be a magnet for street kids and hustlers but as the people used it that point went away.
19 | Posted by johnschoppert | Nov 5, 07:59 PM
Trees, Trees, Trees.
20 | Posted by The Gulag | Nov 6, 10:32 PM
Christmas Trees!
21 | Posted by Jake | Nov 6, 10:43 PM
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