How Tall for the Thea Foss? (29. October 2007, 15:11 by Whitney) ~ Height Matters

The City Council will take public comments tomorrow about the proposed changes to the height restrictions on the Foss Waterway – specifically Site 10, Site 11, and the municipal dock site north of the Murray Morgan bridge.

The recommended code amendments would allow for buildings up to 180 ft tall. The developers are considering “tower/podium” style buildings to create view corridors from Pacific Ave and downtown. The City would also require large pedestrian-friendly walkways in between the buildings and an esplanade that would connect to the rest of the Thea Foss waterfront.

The report to the Council last week included some nifty computer generated images of the view and view loss. Fireman’s Park would become much less picturesque, but several iconic views would be maintained.

Of course, this is just the “building envelope” in which a developer could build and it doesn’t necessarily mean the entire space would be filled … but it might be.

Councilmembers raised questions about the area’s connectivity to downtown. There is no requirement for a pedestrian walkway or any other sort direct access to downtown from any new project.

We’ve been through public comment on this before and we’re looking forward to hearing the public comment on this issue again. Do you have any new thoughts?

A lot more information is available at:
http://www.cityoftacoma.org/Page.aspx?hid=2219

When & Where
About 5:30pm, During the City Council Meeting
Tacoma Municipal Building
747 Market Street, Council Chambers

Commenting Is Closed
Comments are allowed for two weeks from the posted date. If you want to make a comment or reopen this discussion, please contact us with your request. Thank you for visiting.

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Connectivity: Escalators, zip lines and/or heated water slides!

1 | Posted by KevinFreitas | Oct 29, 03:22 PM

Councilmembers raised questions about the area’s connectivity to downtown.

Downtown Tacoma needs a large open staircase down to the Foss. Other than the Bridge fo Glass, the rest are dark, scary and unused.

Here was my letter to the Planning Commission:

Because there are such limited number of space on the waterway, the developable areas must be utilized well. Otherwise, the Foss Waterway will not have a sufficient population and activity to succeed. It will be little more than a remote destination to be visited during the day.

Already numerous businesses on the waterfront have had to close because of lack of activity including the Blue Olive restaurant.

The Foss Waterway will never be able to support businesses for the residents who live there without a sufficient number of people there.

Having spent tens of millions of dollars on the Foss Waterway, Bridge of Glass and other amenities, the city has an obligation to permit and encourage as much residential development in the area to make it economically viable.

Safety

Without sufficient number of people on the waterfront, the area will not have enough residents to monitor the area through “eyes on the street” making it crime prone. Urban areas with little activity at night become “dead zones” and often have crime issues.

Views of Residential Units in Commercial Zone

The residents living downtown have no legitimate expectation of an unobstructed view of the water.

In cities such as Seattle, buildings of increasing heights have been built as the city has become more prosperous, each new one effecting the view of the tower.

No buildings of any consequence could have been built in Seattle if they were not allowed to block the view of the Smith Tower.

Compliance With Growth Management Act

The Foss Waterway is now part of the enlarged downtown which is designated to be infiled with additional residents along with 14 mixed use centers. The Foss waterway is adjacent to the downtown core, thus, it is entirely appropriate to place a high density of people there.

2 | Posted by Erik B. | Oct 29, 09:14 PM

Regarding tower/podium style buildings:

Tacoma has an ordinance requiring architects to “set back” the higher stories of tall buildings.

This ordinance has its origin in Chicago and New York City at the turn of the 20th century when architects started designing skyscrapers with steel frames, such as NYC’s 21-story Flatiron Building. Likewise from the same era, Tacoma’s Luzon Building makes use of the steel framework innovation.

With the steel framework innovation, taller and taller buildings were grouped next to each other, aka density, and they ultimately blocked out sunlight to the streets and created shadowy corridors.

So, to allow more daylight to the streets, governing authorities developed ordinances requiring architects to “set back” the higher stories of tall buildings.

Why were architects designing taller buildings? They were attempting to solve the problem of crowded business districts and rising real estate values.

3 | Posted by Mofo from the Hood | Oct 29, 09:27 PM

While most of the attention is being directed to the top of the proposed buildings it may be that the bottoms are the most vulger and offensive. The high, high end condos make their price by offering parking in a continuous multistory structure that is the plinth for the towers. Then there is the private secured marina on the water side of the boardwalk for the high, high condo owners boats. The effect will be an esplanade enclosed on one side by building mass and the other by security fencing and gates down to the private floats. The only relief will be to gaze skyward…no that won’t work either.

4 | Posted by artifacts | Oct 30, 09:22 AM

artifacts has a great point – it’s not just about the view blockage, it’s also about the experience of those at ground level and for those approaching/passing on the water.

5 | Posted by Squid | Oct 30, 11:13 AM

I believe the Foss Harbor proposal (sites 10 and 11) has a mixed use component. Obviously, parking will be necessary for the occupiers of these residences, but the developers have mentioned that there likely will also be a retail element, including, possibly, a grocery store and/or office space. Also, the Thea Foss Esplanade is planned to extend all the way to Thea’s Park. I don’t think the City would spend millions building the esplanade if people using it had to look at security fences.

I think the City Council would be well advised to adopt the Planning Commission’s recommendation. Development such as this may spur other high-rise development in the area. The most recent project of this height was the Tacoma Financial Center, which was built in 1983. Since then, Tacoma has sat idly by as Seattle and Bellevue have exploded with high-rise buildings. It would be nice if Tacoma could follow this same trend.

6 | Posted by drizell | Oct 30, 12:27 PM

I agree with you Drizell on the desperate need for some new high-rise structures. The image of Tacoma skyline from a fast glance is nothing is going on. The skyline has barely changed in over 20 years. Look at Bellevue or Seattle looking at the skyline you know things are happening there.

Plus aren’t people tired of the same old 4-9 story buildings? They are all looking like the same thing. I bet if a developer built a nice 20+ story condo building in Downtown they would sell pretty good because it is something new and not seen yet in Tacoma.

Drizell, a bit off subject but do you know if the Tacoma Financial Center was designed to handle another tower? Or is that just how large the “podium” has to be for a building of that height?

7 | Posted by Jake | Oct 30, 01:14 PM

I’d be in favor of more tall buildings, but I am more tired of empty lots and empty buildings than I am weary of midrise structures.

8 | Posted by Erik S | Oct 30, 01:35 PM

While I think that it is good to pay attention to the visual impact of these structures, I am more concerned about access and activity. The council was right to raise questions about the connection to downtown. If new developments don’t have sufficient provisions for ground floor retail and good connections to the rest of downtown, the Foss will remain a dead zone.

9 | Posted by Erik S | Oct 30, 01:44 PM

Whatever the Tacoma City Council decides, the question of allowing 180’ buildings at water’s edge is not a good precedent for the Puget Sound region. The Growth Management Board and Shoreline Management Review process at the State level are going to assure a bumpy ride for the selfish idea and that’s a good thing.

The regulatory adventures aside there is an important local urban design value at risk as well. In the Old City Hall Historic District immediately behind the proposed towers a polite standard of four or five stories is oberserved and thanks to our stepped topography every one enjoys a protected view to the bay and mountain. Letting waterfront developers climb 8-10 stories above the bluff will bring building mass up to the level of Old City Halls main roof and block views from the entire district. With no specifics on the design, do we really want to invite stacked, standard condo construction into our visual setting? And adding insult to injury, do we want to further facilitate it on waterfront land that should have a dedicated public benefit?

E B White jested in a poem about a similiar disagreement.

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/int/i_paint_what_i_see.html

10 | Posted by artifacts | Oct 30, 01:52 PM

Note that the proposed amendment will NOT substantially increase the density of the site. The total density change is something like 3% of gfa – much of which will likely be lost in unleasable space. This is more of a question of how do you want your density to look.

The key issue for me is the obstruction of views from the only park in downtown Tacoma. I think one super tall tower (think 30+ stories, 12-15,000 plate) would be okay as it would only be one point on the horizon no matter where you were. One tall tower with another stubbed tower at ~80-90 feet would still allow for views. It’s the two tall tower (plus a stubbed) that obliterates views from Fireman’s Park with a wall of building.

(& yes, I know Fireman’s Park is very poorly designed, but that can be fixed – the loss of views cannot.)

This is probably all irrelevant anyway as it looks likely to be challenged & overturned by the state.

11 | Posted by DavidS | Oct 30, 01:56 PM

Isn’t the Historic City Hall District in the DCC zoning which allows 400’ structures? I do think so. My suggestion for the Old City Hall District: Build Taller.

12 | Posted by Jake | Oct 30, 01:57 PM

Hey Jake, the point should not be that higher is better it should be that good design is best for the city. I’ll take a mid rise like the new Roberson Building over most of the 20+ going up in Belltown or Bellvue any day.

The point in having historic districts is have a citzen based design review process rather than regulatory “anything goes” binary zoning.

My suggestion for the waterfront(and downtown):Design Better.

13 | Posted by artifacts | Oct 30, 03:03 PM

Commenting is closed for this article.

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  • Posted:29. October 2007, 15:11
  • Author: Whitney
  • Category:
  • Comment Status:Closed

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